Capping Ability Scores

[GQuail]

If that's true, then my objection changes from "It'll totally change the balance of everything" to "what's the point? Oh, and by the way, it will still change the balance of more things than I suspect you realize".

I don't think it'll really upset balance all that much: it /does/ make ability scores potentialy lower, especially the higher level you go, but even then most characters benefit from more than one stat being high. If your Str can't go above 18, you'll probably be happy upping your Con with your stat boost: and while I've not played especially high level, I do know that even my spell-caster players ponder exactly where to put each stat boost. Especially if you're using normal point buy, the chances are it would take you quite a while to reach beyond 18 anyway.

As for if it would actually make a huge difference: that depends on a few other factors. If purchasing items is more complex than saying "I buy a heaband of intellect +4, here's the GP", then it might become a bigger deal. Sure, most high level characters have Tomes, Wishes, Headbands, Gloves, Belts and suchlike boosting their stats, but the availability of those can vary a lot depending on your DM: and if your DM makes the higher boosts harder to buy and requires crafting, questing, etc to get them, then it might be a bigger deal.

Also, if you wanted to play more encounters where magic items can't always help (villains would logically use anti-magic fields to deal with the PC party known for it's impressive gear, or perhaps a certain plane might have odd effects on some magic items) then it might play a bigger factor. When Stormgud the Barbarian loses all his magical gear, some people might prefer that be "only human" no matter how high level he is: rather than, say, walking around with a natural strength of 22.

It's definatly a harking back to older edition concepts that plenty of people aren't fond of: so it's no wonder quite a few people have come on board to say, "That sounds utterly dire". But if you wanted to play a more, for want of a better word, "realistic" game, then it might be one such step to take. The kind of levels you'd need to get at for it to be a huge stumbling block (basically around level 30, by which time a standard point buy would have at least two of his best stats maxed out) would not be the sort of levels people wanting this rule would be wanting to play to, nor would they be likely using stat-generation systems that turn up paticualrly huge stats.

Of course, it might still be quicker to just play AD&D instead. ;-)

 

[airwalkrr]

I've edited my post and would be happy if you did the same. We can hopefully continue discussion tomorrow when neither of us has as strong of a reason to feel defensive about anything.

I realize it's hard to emote online so I apologize if you think I sound angry. I'm not upset about anything. I recognize we have different views of what the game is supposed to be like and I am perfectly ok with that. I just didn't want to discuss what the game is supposed to be like on this thread and was simply pointing that out. No hard feelings.

 

[dante58701]

First of all, do you think you could be a little bit more hostile?.

Yes I could...for I was not being hostile...now I am..so cry me a river.

Second of all, you and I clearly have different ideas about what the game is about. That is fine of course. We all have our different opinions and styles of play and as long as they work for us, so much the better. My personal opinion of D&D player characters is that they are not super heroes like the x-men, superman or the fantastic four with abilities that defy the limits of humanity. Instead, they are the pinnacle of human accomplishment who survive by their skills and wits instead of their innate god-like powers, like the more "human" super heroes such as batman or daredevil. (And I see magic as a skill within the context of the D&D game so the "magic" excuse doesn't work.)

Really, what ideas do I have regarding the game? Suddenly you can read my mind? You must have superhuman powers. And I never mentioned X-Men at all. Batman was relatively normal, although he had psychological disorders that gave him an inordinant ammount of resistances to mind altering affects and as for Daredevil...he had biochemically heightened senses. He was far from being "Normal". And magic is not just a skill. Id like to see you use you normal human abilities to cast a spell. And you forgot about Conan entirely, skirting the issue since he and other heroes like him are clearly abnormal. As are many other so called "normal heroes". Just because something isnt a mutie freak, doesnt mean its normal.

Also, I never claimed this was a cure all. It is but one of a number of tweaks I have been mulling over in the attempt to adjust the game more to my and my groups' liking. If that isn't your cup of tea, please take your trolling elsewhere.

I dont recall ever saying you claimed that. But it is clear to me that you must feel some need to express you disdain for epic statistics. Otherwise you would never post anything about installing limits. Limited people have limited minds. As for "trolling" its awfully kind of you to assume I was here to start things. In so assuming you have not only made an arse out of yourself, but you have proved your inability to allow others to express their "different ideas" about what the game is about. Were I "trolling" I would have been the one to start whining about high ability scores instead of just keeping my personal feelings to myself and my gaming group. Nearly everyone knows that posting complaints about epic abilities of any sort will bring down an endless tirade of "PLEASE STOP WHINING!!!"

I absolutely love it that someone could take my ahorrence towards a certain topic as a personal attack. I wasnt upset before, in fact I was quite rational and reasonable in posting my rebuttel to the tacticular attack on epic statics. But now Im annoyed. I have a right to my opinions and if you cant accept that...then perhaps you shouldnt post on here anymore.
Anyone who reads hostility in a valid arguement is not only close-minded to other peoples opinions, they are also quite rude and certainly hostile. Since you enjoy turning friendly debates in argumentative quandries, then fine. So be it. I can be immature too. I dont appreciate your attack or your assumptions as to my emotional state of being. I think they are ungrounded and consequently assumptive. And most of us know what assumption leads to. It leads to you being an arse. While I can appreciate that you want more control over your gaming group, I refuse to appreciate your insults regarding me. If you want to complain about 3.0 edition or 3.5...then save us all the headache and go back to playing 2nd edition or even first edition. Im sure you can find plenty of source material at amazon.com. I hate whiners like you and cannot stand people who post and get all pissy when people post their own opinions regarding those posts that you post. Everyone here is entitled to their own ideas. If you dont like that...then maybe you should take you extremist nazi views and go be the oppressor somewhere else.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've banned dante58701 for 2 days for this entirely offensive post.

Please control your posting behaviour; we are all guests in Morrus' living room and we should behave appropriately.

I've edited out some of the most egragarious insults in your post above, but don't have the time to do all of it.



To those in the thread who are making an effort to not take offence at each other - thank you.

Regards,

 

[ValhallaGH]

Capping ability scores will change the character of your games, somewhat, especially if you ever play at epic levels. It's unlikely that the changes will be as drastic as many posters have predicted since 1) you use the elite array or a 25 point buy, thus having a lower-powered game than many groups I've seen and 2) given your attachement to AD&D I suspect that you won't be going epic very often.

The real effect that I predict is that tactical foolishness that can be survived because the character is just powerful enough to get away with it will disappear. Every single one of your players will have to become an effective tactician or their characters will die a gruesome and painful death, quite regularly if they have lots of rezz gear. Personally, I know that not everyone is a tactical genius, and I hate to ruin a player's fun by killing their character because the player lacks a grasp of tactics. I also know several GMs that think the above is the ideal. How you feel about it will affect how and if you choose to implement your houserule.

 

[cradledrapture]

Capping ability scores is pointless. Just be a Good DM and learn to use the word No. The DM has the final say in everything, why do you need our approval?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Capping ability scores is pointless. Just be a Good DM and learn to use the word No. The DM has the final say in everything, why do you need our approval?

Mmmm. Posters that have missed the rant in a nearby thread.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Capping ability scores will change the character of your games, somewhat, especially if you ever play at epic levels. It's unlikely that the changes will be as drastic as many posters have predicted since 1) you use the elite array or a 25 point buy, thus having a lower-powered game than many groups I've seen and 2) given your attachement to AD&D I suspect that you won't be going epic very often.

The real effect that I predict is that tactical foolishness that can be survived because the character is just powerful enough to get away with it will disappear. Every single one of your players will have to become an effective tactician or their characters will die a gruesome and painful death, quite regularly if they have lots of rezz gear. Personally, I know that not everyone is a tactical genius, and I hate to ruin a player's fun by killing their character because the player lacks a grasp of tactics. I also know several GMs that think the above is the ideal. How you feel about it will affect how and if you choose to implement your houserule.

From my experience: Yes, that is exactly what happens. The margin for error gets smaller, and you become very careful with what you do. Still, even with 25 point buy you often run into situations where you simple "rule" the battlefield. Ability scores aren't everything..

 

[cradledrapture]

Not a rant..sarcasm. One topic to note though. In my earlier statement I was a bit brisk..but I mean it. Too many DMs these days forget the golden rule...DM IS GOD!!!
I think people need to be reminded of this. Why come online and start asking for approval regarding ability scores or whatnot. I mean...Its not like there are going to be too many people that like this line of topics, nor are there going to be many positive statements for someone who has offended more than one person. I mean no offense...but he isnt exactly the nicest individual by going around and talking about peoples mental states when he knows nothing about them. He further compounds his lack of popularity by assuming everyone is attacking him. This guy needs to calm down and think things through rationally.
Before others get offended. This Dante guy went a bit off the kilt, but he was right, this guy is assumptive and quite rude. Admittedly this guy went overboard with his opinions but cut him some slack...hes right...this guy is rude. Sure hes subtle about it, but does that make him any less rude. If he wants a better campaign, why doesnt he just stick to basics. Its so much easier than going online and causing problems. How many people is he getting to offend without being booted? Two so far. The other guy only offended him by getting upset at being insulted. Where is his defender. Why wasnt this guy booted too. In my opinion both "the ability scores should be 18" guy and the dante guy should be banned for 2 days. Its only fair considering they were both being rude. Otherwise this will turn into a huge fiasco over time as people realize you arent being very just about this. So ban him too and well all call it a day. Hopefully that will end the whole mess.

 

[GQuail]

cradledrapture: if you have a problem with a poster, the Report Bad Post button (the warning sign located in the bottom left of each post) lets you do so. I would suggest, however, that since the mods have come in here, looked at the thread and made their judgement, that your time would be better spent sticking to the topic in hand rather than throwing any more accusations of foul play about.


ValhallaGH: yes, this will lower the "buffer zone" of players, and make players a bit more fragile. But assume you're using the standard array, it's going to be quite a few levels before it ever makes a difference. Again, it all depends on a bunch of other factors the OP hasn't filled us in on: stat generation, magic item availability, and the levels he'd be running on.

At the very least, a group starting at level 1 with normally rolled stats (that is, 4d6 and drop the lowest) is going to have a max pre-racial-boosting of 18: and since his first 1 point boost to 19 wouldn't make an in-game difference, it will be at least level 8 before anyone has a chance to operate differently under this set of house rules than in RAW D&D. If that makes the OP happy, then go him: it's not my bag, but I don't see it as gamebreaking as some people on this thread seem to imply.