Belen
Legend
The overall picture for the casting classes seems to be grim. From what we have seen to date, the melee types are getting a significant boost in personal power, yet the casters, who rely on spells, are getting nerfed. In an attempt to balance excesses on the part of some powergamers, all casters seem to suffer.
Spells are a casters stock-in-trade, so why are the spells themselves being nerfed? I see a lot of people argue that fighters can do nothing except fight. This is blantantly untrue. Just because most people choose to turn their fighters into combat monsters alone, does not mean that a fighter cannot choose to be more.
Why can't fighters place a higher stat in Wis, Int, or Cha? They could certainly have more roleplaying reward by doing so. In my experience however, people who play fighters always place the highest stats in the combat stats, then whine because they can do nothing outside of combat. That is a matter of CHOICE! A fighter can have a 12 str, and a 16 cha and still be a very viable combat character with all their feats. Instead, we get a lot of people moaning about the casters doing everything while a fighter sits back behind the scenes.
A fighter can also choice to take items that are more rp oriented. Want to fly? Winged boots etc. They do not always have to focus on combat items. I just see no excuse for the moaners to play a fighter outside the box.
Spells are a casters entire existence. They pay for versatility with low hit points, lower AC, and less fort/ref saves. How often do those wizards save versus breath weapon? A dragon's initial attack will one round a wizard. In fact, surprise encounters can easily spell the doom of a wizard. By 12th level every other class can take 70 damage in a surprise attack, EXCEPT the arcane casters. Why? Because a arcane caster still has to prep for combat.
The wizard in my group is always the last person to be effective. Low hp means that the first thing a caster thinks of in combat is protection. Maybe all of the melee crowd should remember that it is the melee types who punish the enemy. It only looks like casters defeat the momsters because they get involved after the melee types have dished it out! Even with 3e haste, a caster is still not effective until round two. In my experience, a combat is over 60% of the time by round 3!
Now, let's look at the nerfing of 3.5:
Haste: Melee buff (sorry, but useless to casters)
Disintigrate: Harm now does more damage. Don't forget that it is a fort. save, so even in original format a melee type usually saves!
Polymorph self: Sucks if the party has no rogue now. Duration to short to be useful outside of combat or a quick getaway.
Bull's Str- Useless now. Unless the melee types want a caster to not get into combat until 4 or 5 rounds later. Don't expect mages to enter melee for that touch spell! How can you expect a 3rd level mage with 12 hp to survive entering a fray in order to touch an ally!?
This list can be continued, but I just find a very disturbing trend here. The designers want to emphasize personal abilities huh? Yet mages have NO personal abilities outside of spells and spells seem to be nerfed! The spells are being designed to be useful in combat only and then not as useful as a sword wielder.
Finally just remember that an anti-magic field turns a mage into little more than a high level commoners, while a fighter always has a sword and their non-supernatural feats.
Am I the only person to have the feeling that casters are no support only rather than a viable PC that could shine just as much as a melee type?
Please feel free to discuss. I do not mind if some of you think me wrong...let's just keep it civilized.
Dave
Spells are a casters stock-in-trade, so why are the spells themselves being nerfed? I see a lot of people argue that fighters can do nothing except fight. This is blantantly untrue. Just because most people choose to turn their fighters into combat monsters alone, does not mean that a fighter cannot choose to be more.
Why can't fighters place a higher stat in Wis, Int, or Cha? They could certainly have more roleplaying reward by doing so. In my experience however, people who play fighters always place the highest stats in the combat stats, then whine because they can do nothing outside of combat. That is a matter of CHOICE! A fighter can have a 12 str, and a 16 cha and still be a very viable combat character with all their feats. Instead, we get a lot of people moaning about the casters doing everything while a fighter sits back behind the scenes.
A fighter can also choice to take items that are more rp oriented. Want to fly? Winged boots etc. They do not always have to focus on combat items. I just see no excuse for the moaners to play a fighter outside the box.
Spells are a casters entire existence. They pay for versatility with low hit points, lower AC, and less fort/ref saves. How often do those wizards save versus breath weapon? A dragon's initial attack will one round a wizard. In fact, surprise encounters can easily spell the doom of a wizard. By 12th level every other class can take 70 damage in a surprise attack, EXCEPT the arcane casters. Why? Because a arcane caster still has to prep for combat.
The wizard in my group is always the last person to be effective. Low hp means that the first thing a caster thinks of in combat is protection. Maybe all of the melee crowd should remember that it is the melee types who punish the enemy. It only looks like casters defeat the momsters because they get involved after the melee types have dished it out! Even with 3e haste, a caster is still not effective until round two. In my experience, a combat is over 60% of the time by round 3!
Now, let's look at the nerfing of 3.5:
Haste: Melee buff (sorry, but useless to casters)
Disintigrate: Harm now does more damage. Don't forget that it is a fort. save, so even in original format a melee type usually saves!
Polymorph self: Sucks if the party has no rogue now. Duration to short to be useful outside of combat or a quick getaway.
Bull's Str- Useless now. Unless the melee types want a caster to not get into combat until 4 or 5 rounds later. Don't expect mages to enter melee for that touch spell! How can you expect a 3rd level mage with 12 hp to survive entering a fray in order to touch an ally!?
This list can be continued, but I just find a very disturbing trend here. The designers want to emphasize personal abilities huh? Yet mages have NO personal abilities outside of spells and spells seem to be nerfed! The spells are being designed to be useful in combat only and then not as useful as a sword wielder.
Finally just remember that an anti-magic field turns a mage into little more than a high level commoners, while a fighter always has a sword and their non-supernatural feats.
Am I the only person to have the feeling that casters are no support only rather than a viable PC that could shine just as much as a melee type?
Please feel free to discuss. I do not mind if some of you think me wrong...let's just keep it civilized.
Dave
