D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components

[Asisreo]

and basically several of the most potent are basically hand picked presents designed for martial types other than the monk. And those martials get more of them too.

What's crazy is: they really aren't. If you play a ranged fighter without Sharpshooter, you get less damage...whatever.

If you play a wizard without resilient:Con and Warcaster, your whole gameplay style changes.

 

[Garthanos]

This was only "new" to people who'd been playing for less than a decade and a half when it was launched. If you played AD&D the player's numbers for non weapon proficiencies barely went up at all.

And the low amount of advancement of course has for me fun effects like minimizing the advancement awesomeness of characters who rely on skills to accomplish things outside of an arena where hit points and multiattacking exist.

And I said awesomeness instead of effectiveness kind of for what I sometimes find a hard to express reason .... the things I as a dm can describe as a target difficulty which they never could achieve early on is virtually non-existent. When the variation from beginning to end is only 4 dc differences. In 5e you are guaranteed even at low levels of being nearly just as able to hit almost all the same dcs you can hit at end game (less 4). You are now a few points better and the DM arbitrarily makes something you had to roll for now free... because you had only 60 percent chance before but now you are so good that is now 100 percent chance???? the numbers do not support any flavor of advancement might be an expression of what I mean.

And advancement in terms of awesomeness of approachable targets is gone?

 

[Minigiant]

Honestly, if you want a mythic martial, I don't think the fighter is even the right class. Their structure doesn't support i

This is why D&D needs more classes.

Just how the magic user was split in wizard, sorcerer, and warlock, the fighting man shoulda been split.

Fighter- Christmas Tree Warrior
Barbarian- Rage Warrior
Monk- Ki/Mana Warrior-
Hero- Mythic/Epic Warrior
Champion- Cinematic Warrior
Swordmaster- Wuxia/Anime Warrior
etc etc

 

[DND_Reborn]

BEGIN RANT

This is why D&D needs more classes.

Ug! No! That is the LAST thing D&D needs...

If you really feel you need more classes, use subclasses (if you absolutely must).

If D&D just keeps adding more and more classes, you're better off with a class-less system that just lets you build whatever concept you want.

END RANT

Now, back to your regularly schedule thread topic.

 

[Garthanos]

You know several somethings 5e did also to the detriment of the melee martial fighter/paladin/barbarian?
They removed the melee fighters ability to charge (in effect they halved his threat distance)
They removed opportunity attacks against ranged combatants and casters if you can get near (its worse than disadvantage).
Basically exacerbates the superiority of ranged combatants over melee (which is a real life thing).

If one gave a legendary melee martial type an ability to free surprise charge without taking opportunity attacks after they killed an enemy (it would be analogous to a ranged attacker changing targets trivially and relevant to either at level 5)

A throw on the run ability as part of a charge action would be good too. (javelin/spear throws are more effective and better range that way) make the range of that strength based thrown attack closer to that of a dex ranged enemy, even if only once per turn but it lets them close concurrently.

I think (buckler) shields users given the ability to reflex parry one attack or a large shield the ability to reflex against one and drop into a "stance" where they multi-parry for the remainder of the turn by hunching down behind that shield while getting disadvantage on their attacks, would be cool and a step in the right direction

Any ways just spitballing

 

[HammerMan]

BEGIN RANT

Ug! No! That is the LAST thing D&D needs...

If you really feel you need more classes, use subclasses (if you absolutely must).

If D&D just keeps adding more and more classes, you're better off with a class-less system that just lets you build whatever concept you want.

END RANT

Now, back to your regularly schedule thread topic.

if you want less classes you need more options in each class

(again I point to warlock chaise... new pact new patron new invoication pluss spells/cantrips)

 

[HammerMan]

I think (buckler) shields users given the ability to reflex parry one attack or a large shield the ability to reflex against one and drop into a "stance" where they multi-parry for the remainder of the turn by hunching down behind that shield while getting disadvantage on their attacks, would be cool and a step in the right direction

Any ways just spitballing

a while ago I spitball an AC fix where you don't add base shield bonuses, but instead small shields let you add half prof to AC as a reaction if hit, and large shields full prof.

 

[Garthanos]

if you want less classes you need more options in each class

Which I am feeling repetitive with Level Up also went there well... we are on Enworld.

Level Up also made more Martial Classes

 

[Vaalingrade]

If you really feel you need more classes, use subclasses (if you absolutely must).

Subclasses don't work if the original class chassis can't handle them.

See Also: Fighter.

 

[HammerMan]

Subclasses don't work if the original class chassis can't handle them.

See Also: Fighter.

again this is why you need a more robust Chassis like warlock