D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 2 - The Mundane Limit

[Vaalingrade]

It fails the vast majority of the time. It sometimes works on the specifically stupid or hot head types, but most of the time it's just banter.

Who isn't a hothead when Spidey's taunting them? He's even gotten Cap with this trick. It's so common and works so reliably that it's sometimes listed as one of his powers alongside his intellect.

 

[Azzy]

I'm not opting out of playing. I'm asking if my character can choose the option he wants or if he's forced to take an action that he doesn't want to do?

Can your character choose the option he wants in regards to other circumstances that the rules dictate a certain reaction?

 

[Vaalingrade]

"The monster hits you and pushes you back 10ft."

"No."

"What?"

"It's not magic, so I decide it doesn't work."

 

[Maxperson]

I have my problems with the way 4E was structured, but this specifically is not one of them. That's just a resolution mechanic, and the only difference between forcing a save and, for example, making a skill check is whose ability is in question. If I make a skill check, I am specifically determining whether I am good enough at what I'm attempting to pull off the desired result. If I force a save, it's a given that I'm skilled enough; the question is whether or not the target is good enough not to be affected.

The thing with skill checks, though, is that at least in 3e and 5e, they couldn't make a PC think or do anything that wasn't something like physically falling down. It doesn't matter what your persuasion or intimidate skill numbers are, there's no number you can roll to make a PC do something. I don't know whether 4 was like that.

I don't see any reason why a wizard can be good enough at casting magic that they're able to successfully cast 100% of the time, but a melee combatant can't be good enough at controlling the flow of combat that they can 100% draw an opponent into the action they desire, given that the opponent themself isn't wary enough to see through it.

I don't, either, so long as the martial character is using a skill that has become so good that it has become supernatural.

 

[Maxperson]

"The monster hits you and pushes you back 10ft."

"No."

"What?"

"It's not magic, so I decide it doesn't work."

This is a Strawman. I'm specifically not talking about physical things. I'm talking about something like Come and Get It which isn't physical.

 

[Mordhau]

I think the main problem with Come and Get It was that it was an Encounter power when it should have been a Daily. It's just too ubiquitous (and overpowered for an Encounter power).

 

[Maxperson]

Can your character choose the option he wants in regards to other circumstances that the rules dictate a certain reaction?

Not if it's mind control or something physical. Since we aren't talking about something physical, it must be mind control. If it wasn't, I could opt to do what my PC wants to do and not something that is against his will.

 

[Mordhau]

Not if it's mind control or something physical. Since we aren't talking about something physical, it must be mind control. If it wasn't, I could opt to do what my PC wants to do and not something that is against his will.

It's a PC power, not a monster power, so it doesn't get used against your PC.

I'm not sure from memory if there are any monster powers that work the same way. I can't recall any.

 

[Mordhau]

I don't see any reason why a wizard can be good enough at casting magic that they're able to successfully cast 100% of the time, but a melee combatant can't be good enough at controlling the flow of combat that they can 100% draw an opponent into the action they desire, given that the opponent themself isn't wary enough to see through it.

I was thinking that the Fighter with the more narrative power may be subject to being overuled in situations when it doesn't make sense to use the power without breaking the fiction (like for example if the Fighter wants to use Come and Get It against something with no mind and can't think of a plausible way to reskin it.)

But then I thought about it and realised I also might not allow a wizard to cast a fireball while underwater.

 

[Maxperson]

It's a PC power, not a monster power, so it doesn't get used against your PC.

I'm not sure from memory if there are any monster powers that work the same way. I can't recall any.

Also on the list of things being discussed are 5e Menacing Attack and Goading Attack, which NPCs can get and use against PCs.