Casting Orb Spells into Anti-Magic Fields

[Felon]

Over in another thread there was some discussion regarding the various orb spells presented in the Complete Arcane (and compiled into the Spell Compendium). There seem to be some folks claim you can sned the orbs into an antimagic field. My reply was to quote the following text regarding AMFs:

"The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

To which someone else replied:

No more than it would supress holy water or a vial of acid should you toss it at a target inside an AMF.

So, where is the disconnect between me and these folks? If the holy water or a vial of acid in question is a spell, it's suppressed within the AMF. If it's not a spell, then it has no bearing on the discussion. Same with the orb. Cast it into an AMF, and it's suppressed. The language seems to make its intentions plain.

 

[javcs]

If the Orbs were Evocation spells, that would be right.
However, as per RAW, since their Conjuration spells, and create an actual glob of acid or whatever, and propel said glob on a ballistic trajectory towards the target, it's no longer just a magical effect hitting the target, it's a glob of hazardous material that was magically created but is no longer magical in nature. It's weird, granted, but that's the way the rules are written.

 

[Elethiomel]

Not because they are Conjuration spells, but because they bear the [Creation] designator. A summoned creature is suppressed by an antimagic field, but an instantaneously created glob of acid is not.

 

[javcs]

Not because they are Conjuration spells, but because they bear the [Creation] designator. A summoned creature is suppressed by an antimagic field, but an instantaneously created glob of acid is not.

Ah, thank you, I knew I was missing something in that explanation.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, where is the disconnect between me and these folks? If the holy water or a vial of acid in question is a spell, it's suppressed within the AMF. If it's not a spell, then it has no bearing on the discussion. Same with the orb. Cast it into an AMF, and it's suppressed. The language seems to make its intentions plain.

The orb isn't a spell; it's the effect of a spell.

The AMF suppresses magical effects; as an effect of an instantaneous Conjuration [Creation] spell, the orb is not a magical effect, but rather a non-magical effect, per the subschool description.

Non-magical effects are not suppressed by the AMF; it will not suppress a Wall of Stone, nor will it suppress an Orb of Force.

It will prevent a Wall of Stone or an Orb of Force appearing inside the AMF, but it won't prevent one created outside from being brought into it.

-Hyp.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ahhhh, so that's one reason why Orb spells are so vaunted! I see now.

Yes, [Creation] is a fun subschool, indeed.

 

[DreadArchon]

Of course, there's always the argument that, as non-magical "objects" (as per the description of [Creation]), they behave as mundane items after summoned. That swirling cloud of electrons you just summoned? Sure, it would have enough momentum to reach the target, but since it ceases to be magical, it just grounds through you and you take the damage. Orb of Acid? Orb of Fire? Sure, but be careful not to shoot into the wind! Orb of Cold? Well, "cold" merely means lack of heat if you take away the magic, so there's nothing to propel--it just makes you a bit chilly as it disperses.

Orb of Force and Orb of Sonic make sense though.

 

[Victim]

Even Conjuration spells need line of effect for targeting.

 

[javcs]

Even Conjuration spells need line of effect for targeting.

How do you not have line of effect?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Even Conjuration spells need line of effect for targeting.

Orb of Acid does not have a Target entry. It has an Effect entry.

You need line of effect to the point of origin of the Effect... which is your hand.

Your hand is not in the AMF; line of effect to the point of origin of the Effect is not blocked.

-Hyp.