D&D 5E Cat has "Weapons Expertise" with its Claws?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So a "large number" of cats could pose some sort of threat.

Housecat swarm, CR 10, coming in the Monster Manual 2.

 

[pming]

Uh...

Dear Paul,

Your insistence that others follow a loosey-goosey play-style ignores the fact that 5e was written for ALL play-styles. Here you are again telling me that I'm not allowed to think a certain way when I consider how things work in this game because that's on a need-to-know basis somehow. It isn't an issue of whether I need to know why they gave the Cat this or that bonus. I'm perfectly capable of forgetting about any of this and just playing the game as-written. For some people, and you may not be one of them, contemplation of the rules and mechanics of the game are a subject of interest in and of itself. In a forum such as this I would expect to find many such people. I don't see how shutting down such discussions with a claim that they are inappropriate or even detrimental to the enjoyment of the game is at all constructive. I know it was made up. My interest in this discussion is why they made it up the way they did and what are the implications that can be drawn from such decisions when considered within the larger framework of the game as a whole. The assertion that you seem to be making, that there is no such framework, is deeply unsatisfying to me as an explanation of design elements. As I said above, I've never played 3rd or 4th edition. Most of my experience has been with AD&D, and as you may know, the design of monsters in that edition is far less rational than what I've seen in 5e. So please don't pretend that you are the only person who understands the intent behind the design of 5e. Also, I find your suggestion that I put a time limit on inquiries into the rules at my table to be dismissive. If you wish to suppress discussion of the rules in your own games, go right ahead. I will follow no such rule, and I don't see the point of carrying over an impatience with such inquiries into a discussion forum whose sole intent it is to discuss the game.

Thanks,
Hriston

><

Hriston. I think you are taking things a bit too personally. I am not addressing you directly; I'd be PM'ing you for that. I'm posting my interpretations, views and opinions on the subject and attempting to intone how I think the "cat stats" were arrived at, for all to see and maybe comment on.

*snip* <-- I had written more, but decided to just bow out here. You go on thinking what you want and playing the game the way you want and I'll do the same.

Paul L. Ming

 

[Hriston]

I found the pertinent passage in the PH, p. 192 where it spells out that characters and monsters differ somewhat as far as what the "appropriate modifiers" are to the attack roll. For characters, it says that, "the two most common modifiers to the roll are an ability modifier and the character's proficiency bonus." But that a monster, "uses whatever modifier is provided in its stat block." So it seems like the "simple answer" is pretty much correct as far as this passage goes in creating two distinct categories. Notice, however, that for the character, it doesn't preclude other, less common modifiers, and for monsters it only says that modifiers will be provided. Like a lot of other rules in 5e, this is pretty vague. It doesn't, for instance, say that monsters do not ever use the basic formula of ability mod. + proficiency, and when I look at most of the stat blocks I find that they are for the most part conforming to the same "common modifiers." So I understand that there could be other modifiers, besides the two, but in the case of the cat, or any of these other creatures that don't conform, what might those modifiers be, if they aren't a multiple of the proficiency bonus?

 

[Hriston]

I realize that the answer to the above question may be, "there is no answer." That's fine with me. What I'm personally interested in is speculative proposals that may be alternatives to the one I've suggested.

 

[Hriston]

Uh...



><

Hriston. I think you are taking things a bit too personally. I am not addressing you directly; I'd be PM'ing you for that. I'm posting my interpretations, views and opinions on the subject and attempting to intone how I think the "cat stats" were arrived at, for all to see and maybe comment on.

*snip* <-- I had written more, but decided to just bow out here. You go on thinking what you want and playing the game the way you want and I'll do the same.

Paul L. Ming

So when you said, "Stop thinking in 3.x/PF/4e," you were addressing everyone on the thread because you assume that's what they are all doing? Or did you assume that I was thinking that way because of the nature of my question? I find the former hard to believe, but if that's what you meant then I am sorry for taking it personally. I do believe that everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

 

[Umbran]

I realize that the answer to the above question may be, "there is no answer." That's fine with me. What I'm personally interested in is speculative proposals that may be alternatives to the one I've suggested.

Ah. Some of us have a significant tendency to push back on such - people often slip from "speculative proposals" to "we know how it was done" without noticing the transition.

The other way to think of it is - if you have the list of speculative proposals, right at the top should be the "+2 because the designer thought it should be that way" bonus and the "+1 because playtesting showed it should be" bonus.

 

[Zaran]

Cat Familiars don't even get an attack in the first place. If by chance the bartender of a tavern hires you to clear out the cat infestation in his basement, you probably need to speak with your GM about how House cats are the most broken monster in the book. Or you know deal the 1 hp of damage to them and go on down the road.

 

[Hriston]

Well, to sum things up, I got five votes for the designers not following any rules and just "making it up."

Two votes for a hard lower limit of +0/1 dmg. on monster design.

A tentative yes vote on my proposal with some interesting comparisons to the Carrion Crawler with a whopping 3x proficiency with its tentacles.

And a split vote for "they made it up" and "they playtested the cat until it was just right."

Thanks to all for participating!