Catholicism in a Campaign

[Wrath of the Swarm]

It's my understanding that the ancient Roman Empire collapsed around 200 AD, ceasing to be a cohesive political entity.

Of course, a lot was absorbed into the Byzantine Empire which followed it. And obviously it cultural influences would continue for hundreds, even thousands of years.

 

[Dogbrain]

It's my understanding that the ancient Roman Empire collapsed around 200 AD, ceasing to be a cohesive political entity.

Of course, a lot was absorbed into the Byzantine Empire which followed it. And obviously it cultural influences would continue for hundreds, even thousands of years.

What is this so-called "Byzantine" Empire you write of? No such thing ever existed, not even for a femtosecond. Take a read:

http://wwwtc.nhmccd.edu/people/crf01/romaion/

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Interesting... but mostly irrelevant to my point.

Here's another link: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Byzantine_Empire

Clearly there was such a thing. Whether it called itself by that name or not is irrelevant. I don't think the ancient Egyptians ever used the terms "Old Kingdom" and "New Kingdom", but we do now.

Anyway, the "Catholic Church" really didn't exist in 500 AD. So a person wanting to run a Catholic from that period had better be willing to create an entire alternate history, because there was no such thing at the time.

 

[Dogbrain]

"The names by which things are called are important in shaping our interpretation of reality. People are often surprised to discover that historical labels which define the past are inventions of later scholarship and ideology, not parts of the past itself."

 

[Torm]

Clearly there was such a thing. Whether it called itself by that name or not is irrelevant. I don't think the ancient Egyptians ever used the terms "Old Kingdom" and "New Kingdom", but we do now.

Anyway, the "Catholic Church" really didn't exist in 500 AD. So a person wanting to run a Catholic from that period had better be willing to create an entire alternate history, because there was no such thing at the time.

By your own argument, it is possible to argue that people who believed that Peter had been granted the Papal powers and authority by Jesus and that that status could be transferred, somehow, through a line of leaders - well, they were Catholic. Whether they called themselves that, then, or not.

Not that I entirely disagree or agree - just playing Devil's Advocate.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Point taken.

In fact, that's precisely my point: Catholic, with a capital 'c', is a relatively recent invention. Before the Great Schism, there was a holy catholic and apostolic Church - note the little 'c'.

So the stated purpose of the thread initiator is impossible.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

By your own argument, it is possible to argue that people who believed that Peter had been granted the Papal powers and authority by Jesus and that that status could be transferred, somehow, through a line of leaders - well, they were Catholic. Whether they called themselves that, then, or not.

The modern-day Catholics assert that was a belief held in the early Church. The modern-day Orthodox assert that is a modern (well, relatively modern) invention and a heresy. The Catholics claim the Orthodox split off from them, and are willing to accept them back if they accept the authority of the Pope. The Orthodox claim the Catholics split off from them, and are willing to accept them back if they deny the authority of the Pope.

I'm not interesting in getting into an argument about the historical evidence and which side, if either, is correct. My point is that modern Christianity bears little resemblance to the Christianity that existed fifteen-hundred years ago, and even if we accept for the sake of argument that the beliefs about the special role of the Bishop of Rome were actually held, the doctrines of those times were very different from those of today.

There was no Catholic Church. There was only the Church.

 

[Torm]

It would, it seems to me, make more sense to model the in-game Church on the thirteenth century form of the Catholic Church - more contemporary to everything else that would be going on, if the rest of the setting is based on normal D&D tech levels.

 

[Wombat]

"The names by which things are called are important in shaping our interpretation of reality. People are often surprised to discover that historical labels which define the past are inventions of later scholarship and ideology, not parts of the past itself."

True.

By that point, we would also have to drop almost all historical period-labels (Ancient, Late Antiquity, Medieval, Early Modern, etc.). We would also have to drop feudalism (no consistent usage of the term "feudal" during the period -- more explained after-the-fact), the Roman Empire (SPQR and all that, and there is the concept of Imperator, which is not quite the modern notion of Emperor, much less Empire), etc.

OTOH, such terminology provides useful historical shorthand so that we can speak in general terms, rather than getting bogged down in minutiae and particulars.

 

[Krieg]

Actually, I think the big problem in playing a pseudo-Catholic priest in a setting that doesn't have Judaism is not so much the difficulty of the Resurrection (the idea of bringing someone back from the dead was not unknown in the ancient world--Jesus is said to have raised other people from the dead (Lazarus, the Widow's son, the Synagogue leader's daughter, et al) and IIRC, one of the Roman Emperors was reported to have raised someone from the dead. Rather the significance of the Resurrection was that Jesus was raised from the dead without the intervention of anyone else and in accordance with a host of prophecies and predictions that gave his resurrection eschatological and evidiential significance).

I think ED has really touched on something here. If in your campaign world resurrections are the domain of the priesthood, then it is very likely they would take advantage of such a "monopoly".

An individual who was raised without the direct intervetion of an intermediary (ie a cleric) would definitely upset the boat. The various priesthoods might very well see it as a threat to their power base...