Catholicism in a Campaign

[Turanil]

The easiest solution would be to remove the Catholic and real-world elements from the setting, and rename it simply, "The One God" and "The One Church" (which is pretty much what Catholicism is supposed to be).

I second this suggestion.

I also suggest, as someone else already did it, to get a look at the Medieval Player's Manual (there is a review by me on the d20 Review of enworld!). I understand you find this a great idea, but I would nonetheless ask the GM how it can be included in the campaign setting, which looks very pantheistic / pagan (so to speak). IMO: adding the christian faith is good if you add it to a setting that has a Medieval European flair (as with David Edding's the Elenium for example).

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

I'll remind people to keep this focused on the use of the religion in the game, and not a discussion of the religion in general (or in specific!)

Then you should have stopped this discussion as soon as the original poster brought a real-world religion into it instead of a game-religion.

The rest of us are discussing whether and how Catholicism can be brought into the game, which necessarily requires discussing the nature of the Catholic faith and Christinanity in general. If this makes you uncomfortable, you should prevent it.

Or if you'd prefer, we can add the words "in the game" to the end of all of our sentences, so that there's absolutely no confusion in anyone's mind.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Hello again, everyone!

Just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for thier ideas for my game, you've really helped me to cement a lot of my ideas. I think my best course of action to this would be to create an early Christian sort of religion that is a branch or sect of one of the religions concerning the greater gods (I'm still debating weather to make it the god of law or god of good, both have some interesting aspects to explore).

As to resurection, I think several of you have pointed out to me that there are many ways to present it in order for it to have that miraculous appeal. I'm liking the idea of a resurection that was not the result of a spell but appeared divine, and I also like the idea of having the law enforcers using an artifact that prevents resurection (makes sense for so many reasons).

In regards to the saints, I'm thinking its best to treat them similarly to how the real-world Catholic Church perceives them: all people who go on to heaven are saints, but the Church names those who (by way of various proofs presented after the person's death) the Church decides are gaurenteed to be in heaven. I'm not putting this out to a debate, as it has to do with real-world religion. In the fake-world, saints would be named from clerics, paladins, and other good people who are percieved by their various churches (be they greater, lesser, or one god worshipers) to be exulted. Thus, the church of Ohmarra (a lesser harvest-like god of life, death and the cycle) may name one of thier clerics as a saint, for whatever reason.

As to the lesser gods, my sister (who is playing the Catholic priest in question) has taken the stance that they represent various aspects of her one god, and that people who worship them are worshipping a particular aspect of that god. She holds that if they exist in reality (they rarely, if ever, interact directly with the people of this fake-world) than they are a sort of angelic being, or some very powerful magical being. Personally, I think this is the best way to handle that particular problem.

Finally, in regards to the real-world history of the Catholic church, that is not up to debate, as it has little to do with what will eventually become the fake-world history of this Catholic-like religion. Perhaps refering to this cleric as a Catholic priest is the wrong thing to do, as she represents her own unique early Chistian-like cleric in a D&D world. As such, I think I'm going to be having a lot of fun creating various sects for her religion, as it exists in this fake-world. We chose to set the religion as an early Christian sect in order to create a religion that was de-centralized (they have no Pope-like figure in this fake-world as yet), thereby allowing us to create various other early Christian-like clerics that will have radically different viewpoints to her own. Moreover, thanks to the eclectic world D&D allows us to create (magic allows for so many technological advances, if applied correctly) this fake-world cannot be compared to any one time in our real-world history. Therefore, this early Christian-like church will most likely be an eclectic blend of several points in the real-world Catholic church's history.

I want to thank everyone in this thread for helping me cement my ideas concerning my sister's psydo-Catholic priest, and giving me lots of ideas that I will use with other early christian-like cleric NPC's. I also want to thank you all for staying on topic with this thread, as the last thing I wanted to do in posting it was create a flame war. As such, I would also ask everyone who posts in the future to avoid debating real-world Catholic history.

Thanks again,

T from Three Haligonians

PS: if anyone wishes to discuss real-world Catholic history with me for whatever reason, please, do not post on this thread, but feel free to e-mail me at Three_Haligonians@yahoo.ca, that way I think everyone will be happy!

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

In my campaign I've got a Paladin who worships good as a force, and a cleric who has decided to make an interesting choice for her character. Rather than worship any of these gods, she has decided to play a Catholic priest who worships one god only and has the attitudes and beliefs of a Catholic a few hundred years post-Christ.

I agree that's it best you make a religion similar to early Christianity. Your initial request is... problematic.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

I agree that's it best you make a religion similar to early Christianity. Your initial request is... problematic.

Hey, Wrath of the Swarm, I gotta admit, at first I didn't get where you were coming from, but now I understand! Yah, I phrased that pretty horribly the first time arround, we've always been treating the character as an early Christian-like cleric, I just phrased it wrong. Sorry, my bad

Many thanks to everyone, again!

T from Three Haligonians

 

[Piratecat]

If this makes you uncomfortable, you should prevent it.

On the contrary, it doesn't make me uncomfortable in the least. If it did, the thread wouldn't be open. Perhaps I wasn't clear; I was reminding folks to keep their ruminations about Catholicism focused on how it would apply in a game, and not to wander too far afield from that goal. I think everyone is being quite good about that so far.

I certainly appreciate your advice, though.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

On the contrary, it doesn't make me uncomfortable in the least. If it did, the thread wouldn't be open. Perhaps I wasn't clear; I was reminding folks to keep their ruminations about Catholicism focused on how it would apply in a game, and not to wander too far afield from that goal. I think everyone is being quite good about that so far.

Who said I thought it made you uncomfortable? I was just reminding you of your obligations as a moderator, and how you could best fulfill them. I think you're doing just a fabulous job.

 

[Krieg]

Three_Haligonians...

You might want to take a look at the Gird/Paksnarrion books by Elizabeth Moon. They present an interesting take on "Saints" (Gird & Falk) as part of the theology.

Who said I thought it made you uncomfortable?

Umm...

The rest of us are discussing whether and how Catholicism can be brought into the game, which necessarily requires discussing the nature of the Catholic faith and Christinanity in general. If this makes you uncomfortable, you should prevent it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Wow, three pages, and it hasn't been shut down yet. (Don't worry, not rocking the boat.)

Saints are often called upon for intervention in specific instances, it would be fair to give them additional domains that might be called on by the cleric on the Saint's day. (For example a priest dedicated to Saint Christopher might have the Travel domain as one of his two primary domains, but any cleric can call on that domain on St. Christophers day.) Getting a book of days might be a good idea, but I haven't been able to find any printed versions of more than 500 years of age. (I've been looking.)

Christopher Stasheff has a fantasy series set in a Catholic univers (Wizard in Rhyme) as did the late Gordon Dickson (The Dragon & the George). C. Dale Brittain has a series in what I suspect is an Orthodox setting. (Yurt series.)

Others include the sadly out of print Damiano series by R. A. MacAvoy, and of course Narnia.

The Auld Grump

 

[S'mon]

So the stated purpose of the thread initiator is impossible.

Here here!

It's clearly impossible to have 'historical Catholicism' in the fantasy-world lineup mentioned and maintain any kind of credibility. It needs to be different.
You should decide what attributes of _what you think of as Catholicism_ you want this Cleric's religion to embody, and then use that.

Eg you could easily have a sect of one of the four 'big gods' (probably not Chaos!) that denies the vailidity of the other 3 and believes in a Saviour, that somewhat resembles medieval Catholicism in the way it functions. Either Good or Law would be obvious choices, Law probably the easiest to use IMO since that means your 'Catholic' priests could be both good & evil.
So you could have the Law god as the God-the-Father figure and LG 'Saviour' & 'Mother' figures (demigod, saint, whatever) that may include aspects of the Good god's worship.