CDG and Fortification armor

[Grog]

A couple of questions about trying to CDG someone wearing Fortification armor:

1. Does the "automatic" critical from a CDG override Fortification armor's ability to negate criticals?

2. If not, the victim (assumably) still takes normal damage from the attack. Does the victim still have to make the DC 10 + damage dealt Fort save or die? Or is this aspect of the CDG negated as well?

 

[Mahali]

1. I'd say no. The critical is the mechanic that defines a CDG and not a requirement.

 

[Malachi of Kossuth]

IMHO, fortification would not work against a CDG. However, by the rules, it would stop any critical damage (sneak attacks, etc). So, it would not stop the CDG, but it would stop the sneak attack damage.

 

[The Souljourner]

You automatically hit and score a critical hit.

Just because you automatically critical doesn't mean you can critical people who can't be affected by critical hits. Do you think you get critical damage against a construct if it's somehow held immobile? No, because it can't be affected by critical hits. Someone with armor of fortification is the same, it's just that it's a magical effect and not innate. You would automatically hit, and critical, however since the person is immune to criticals, it would only do normal damage, and the target would still need to make a fortitude save or die.

-The Souljourner

 

[Endur]

PHB p. 154 (ver 3.5). Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to CDG. That would also include fortification armor.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Someone wearing Fortification armour is not immune to criticals, though. There is a percentage chance that any critical or sneak attack scored against them is negated (and that chance may be 100%), but that's not the same thing.

For example:

Magic Weapons and Critical Hits: Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.

----

A zombie takes no extra critical damage from a confirmed critical with a Flaming Burst longsword, since it's immune to crits, but even though he's immune, the crit did happen, and he takes +1d10 flaming damage.

Someone wearing Fortification Armor that successfully negates a crit, however, takes neither extra critical damage, nor burst damage - he is not immune to criticals, but the armor caused the critical not to happen, so the burst doesn't trigger.

There are, however, effects that are not themselves criticals, but that do not function against creatures immune to criticals. Example: Wounding weapons. A zombie is immune to criticals, and therefore not subject to Wounding. Someone wearing Fortified Armor is not immune to criticals, and since Wounding does not require a confirmed critical to function, it will affect someone wearing Fortified Armor (since there is no critical for the armor to negate and thereby prevent the effect).

A coup de grace against someone wearing fortified armor will, by my reading:

a/ automatically hit.
b/ automatically crit, although the critical may be negated by the Fortification.
c/ force a Fort Save DC 10 + damage to avoid death.

The only one the Fortification helps with directly is b/. If the Fortification negates the critical, but the unmultiplied damage still beats the Fort save, the character still dies.

As far as I can tell.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Someone wearing Fortification Armor that successfully negates a crit, however, takes neither extra critical damage, nor burst damage - he is not immune to criticals, but the armor caused the critical not to happen, so the burst doesn't trigger.


-Hyp.

I disagree. All the flaming burst weapon needs to activate is a successfull critical roll. Even if the fortification armor prevents the critical, the roll for the critical was successfull.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree. All the flaming burst weapon needs to activate is a successfull critical roll. Even if the fortification armor prevents the critical, the roll for the critical was successfull.

But as opposed to simply resisting the critical, it negates the critical.

It turns it from a successful roll into an unsuccessful roll.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

But as opposed to simply resisting the critical, it negates the critical.

It turns it from a successful roll into an unsuccessful roll.

-Hyp.

I don't think that is correct. I think you may be reading to much into the term "negated".

The roll was successful, or there would be no critical to be negated.

Once the roll is successful, the burst activates. It doesn't matter if the critical itself is negated afterward.

 

[The Souljourner]

When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

I don't know... it's unclear whether you get other special effects that come with criticals.

I think the fortification armor is expensive enough to warrant protecting against all such effects, but maybe that's just me.

-The Souljourner