Challenge: Balanced Stealthy Party

[Prestidigitalis]

Let's say that the DM has created a campaign where stealth will be essential for some reason. Maybe there is a need to infiltrate army camps or fortresses, or perhaps there is a Thievish cast to the setting. Maybe the world suffers under the iron fist of a tyrant and it's better not to look like an organized group of adventurers. Whatever the reason, what would be a good, balanced party that could all sneak around successfully pretty much whenever they weren't sleeping or swilling ale at the tavern, and yet also survive a pitched battle when they have to?

I'm talking about physical sneaking, i.e. Stealth, with perhaps some need for Acrobatics and Thievery to get one in and out of places that otherwise can't be approached without notice. Social skills such as Bluff and Streetwise could be handy too, in order to get information without attracting attention. Bailout abilities such as fast movement and ability to foil trackers could be useful too, in the event that the sneaking fails, as it is bound to do occasionally.

So. Stealth is easy. Balance is easy. But how to get both? that is the question.

One approach would be to have one uber-sneaker in the group to act as scout for the most critical missions, and then judge the rest of the group by its least stealthy member: the one that would most likely give the game away in more mundane situations. The latter standard could be raised to a high level by these three "rules":

1. Everyone has Stealth as a trained skill
2. Everyone has Stealth as a Skill Focus as early as possible
3. Everyone has a high Dexterity score, and not much of an armor penalty.

The task then, would be to achieve some sort of balance. Probably the easiest way to do that is by mixing up the classes. So, you can't just have a party of Rangers and Rogues. Instead, something like this:

Ranger -- archery
Rogue -- any
Cleric with Ranger MC -- "ranged" laser
Fighter -- Tempest
Controller -- ? I don't have DDI so I'm not sure -- would Druid be better than Wizard? If not, maybe skip the Controller and double up on Leader or Defender.

The Ranger or Rogue would be the best candidate for the uber-sneaker. Whichever one worked best with a race that gave an additional +2 racial bonus to Stealth would have a slight advantage, but as far as I know the only such races are Drow and Kobold -- not conventional picks for most of us.

I just have time for this much, to start the ball rolling. Feel free to chime in with feats and magic items that could raise the standard to make this party into a bunch of Invisible Ninjas. But remember, this is about sneaking ALL the time, not just the occasional epic sneak.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

Make it an all-Eladrin party, Rogues and Rangers. Eladrin Education grants a free skill (which would be Stealth if not included in class). You also enjoy the racial bonus on Dexterity, and of course fey step, which means the gang can just teleport whenever Stealth is too risky or impossible, once every ten minutes. As soon as one member is not Eladrin you have a problem though.

 

[Mengu]

If I was creating a stealth party, I'd go with something in the lines of:

Elf Ranger
Elf Druid with Warrior of the Wild for Stealth
Drow Rogue
Tiefling Tactical Warlord with Warrior of the Wild for Stealth
Eladrin Swordmage

That's two Strikers, a Leader, a Defender, and a Controller. Fairly balanced party.

 

[Quartz]

I don't have the books to hand, but isn't Aid Another still available?

 

[arscott]

My advice is to use the optional rules for character backgrounds from dragon magazine (They're also in the Character builder beta if you don't have the magazine in question).

Those will provide options for non-stealth-based characters to aquire stealth, while granting additional goodies to the folks who have stealth anyways.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I do not suggest choosing races with a dex bonus.
The bottom line of doing so can be just a +1 to stealth, while items and feats can give you much greater bonuses.
Gimping your main attack stat is not worth such a mediocre benefit.

I'm just going to modify a standard 20-in-attack-stat party ... it's what I build best, but there'll be interesting options in there for more balanced builds.
Oh, and I'm suggesting pumping Dex so the characters are viable at sneaking at high levels. If it's just going to be a short term thing, ignoring dex isn't all that bad.

Human great weapon fighter, using a fullblade, wearing scale (it has no armour check penalty).
Pump Str + Dex ever stat bump, so dex isn't totally weaksauce.
Start with a 20 13 13 10 10 8
The build is all about those Close Burst 1 powers.
In a striker-heavy party, more attack rolls = more fullblade crits + more foes marked (and flanked).
Take skill focus (in addition to warrior of the wild) if you really need that stealth bonus early, and retrain it out once you get an elven cloak (or other stealth boosting item).

Elven archery ranger, using a superior crossbow, wearing hide (yes, the extra AC is worth the -1 check penalty if you buy Dex 20)
Pump Dex + Wis.
Start with 10 11 20 8 16 10
The build is a prime shot archery build, flanking with the fighter.
Kill stuff quick is the order of the day, and superior crossbow is 'cos hitroll is king. You can also sneak attack with it after taking sneak of shadows (two thievery trained characters is not redundant, due to aid another and the crucial advice power))
Probably aim to get sylvan hide for the stealth bonus.
Swiftshot superior crossbow is a nice option, especially if with PP and action points there aren't enough actions to load and designate quarry.

Tiefling staff wizard, modified Int 20 pyromancer build.
Pump Dex + Int. Pick up second implement wand at paragon tier.
Start with 8 13 13 20 10 12
Fire all the way, and in the spirit of high speed slaughter, make frequent vocal suggestions that the fighter ought to get armour that grants fire resistance.
"Too bad flamedrinker armor doesn't come in scale!"
Hey look, a wizard with Dex! Take warrior of the wild.
Tieflings get a stealth bonus, so it's less critical to find other bonuses early.

Human battle cleric, wearing scale.
Pump Str + Dex.
Start with 20 13 13 10 10 8
It's all about the righteous brand.
Use a dagger to begin with ('cos scale proficiency and warrior of the wild should be level 1 feats), and take a superior weapon at level 2 such as ... a fullblade.
Dumping Wis and Cha is viable due to those awesome Dex-based sword feats ... such as HBO and mastery.
Probably a little weak at stealth early at +6, so ... tiefling bard could be a leader alternative.

As a 5th character ... a rogue. Suggested build totally unnecessary.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If each character takes skill training in stealth, or a multiclass that grants it, that more or less covers you.

If your character NEEDS heavy armor to function (ie - is a fighter, paladin, melee cleric, charsimatic warlord), then pick up either the armor enchantment that allows you to call your armor to you or the one that allows you to change your armor to regular clothing (both in martial power I believe).

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Good replies, divergent though they are.

Maybe I should have been more clear, but what I'm really thinking about is situations where failing a stealth check could be very, very hazardous -- where you really, really want to max out that Stealth roll. I'm sure there are situations where it's enough for everyone to just take Stealth training, but I'm really thinking of a riskier environment.

I'm open to suggestions that the case I describe is not an appropriate scenario in 4e terms, but if someone wants to make that argument I'd really like to see more than just bald assertions. [ Not suggesting that any of you are making this claim. ]

 

[Cadfan]

Fighter, wielding a two handed sword: Dex is his secondary ability score, he has no armor check penalty in scale, and he can train in Stealth for a single feat.

Eladrin Wizard, wielding a wand: Dex is his secondary score, no armor check penalty, and can train in Stealth using the free racial feat.

Rogue: obviously works

Ranger: obviously works. I'd choose a melee ranger- their stealth won't be quite as good as the archery type, but more melee combatants tends to make the party healthier as a whole.

The only problem is the Leader. None of the leaders are particularly great at stealth. I'd suggest an elven wisdom/charisma cleric as the "least bad" option. Armor check penalty is only -1, and the racial dexterity bonus will get used.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Prestidigitalis, there's more to sneaking than a stealth mod!
Perhaps it would help if you specified a level for the characters in question, since some builds may be good at sneaking at mid heroic or so, but will start off slow.
Also, may want to specify which races are allowed ... 'cos bugbears and drow are there with a dex bonus and +2 racial bonus to stealth.
In fact, if bugbears were available, that would be an instant win for your defender and leader roles!
Stick 'em in scale, pump dex, racial stealth bonus, training & focus, you're golden.
4e being what it is and all, some races & classes just aren't made for it.

Having said that, there are other available options than making a stealth roll.
Veteran's armor + Invisibility, for instance.

Since leaders seem to be the trickiest to build (apart from the aforementioned non-PC available bugbear battle cleric), I'll give it a go.
Drow Bard (FRPG & Dragon article)
10 18 13 8 11 18
With an 18 dex, hide is better than scale for purposes of AC, but weaker in terms of stealth modifier.
Going with longsword, light shield, leather.
Feats by level: Warrior of the Wild (1), Skill Focus (2)
Stealth mod by level: +11 (1), +15 (2)
Good enough?

Hmm ... I guess for a defender, you could just do another Drow with the same statline and feats, and be a paladin. Wear scale and light shield, and you'd have the same stealth mod.

Tiefling war wizard has int 18 dex 16, so would have stealth mods of +10 (1), +14 (2).

Throw in a couple more drow to be strikers.
Any PHB striker will do, though warlock will have to make do with dex 18 rather than 20, but makes up for it with perpetual concealment.

That party has primary attack stats of 18+, minimum stealth mods of +10 at 1st level, and one character (drow rogue) is an optimum build, artful dodger with dex 20 cha 16.