Challenging Challenge Ratings...again
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
Nice spreadsheet- it works like a charm. Once I figured out not to put numbers into the yellow spaces, that is!
You are very clever to have put it together. But I suppose Protectors usually are!
You are very clever to have put it together. But I suppose Protectors usually are!
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
UK- in the format of v5 of Appendix 3 of the IH (Design Parameters) you break down some of the class abilities. Do you happen to know what Barbarian Rage and Ranger Favored Enemy contribute to their respective classes? How about a druid (or ranger's) animal companion?
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hi Cheiromancer mate, Happy New Year! 
Sorry for being so slow to reply.
I am sure I have worked it out at some point, whether or not I can remember is another matter.
Off the top of my head I would say:
Rage = +0.5 ECL
Favoured Enemy = 1 feat
Animal Companion = Should be determined as a Spell-like Ability (Summon Nature's Ally of appropriate level).
Hope that helps?
Sorry for being so slow to reply.
Cheiromancer said:
I am sure I have worked it out at some point, whether or not I can remember is another matter.
Off the top of my head I would say:
Rage = +0.5 ECL
Favoured Enemy = 1 feat
Animal Companion = Should be determined as a Spell-like Ability (Summon Nature's Ally of appropriate level).
Hope that helps?
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
When you say Rage, do you mean the whole chain (Mighty Rage, Tireless Rage, etc.)?
But yeah, that helps. Or at least I resolved the issue to my satisfaction, and there is no particular urgency to the question anymore.
(I was making some variant classes, and I had to do some pretty serious swapping of abilites)
Happy New Year to you, too!
But yeah, that helps. Or at least I resolved the issue to my satisfaction, and there is no particular urgency to the question anymore.
(I was making some variant classes, and I had to do some pretty serious swapping of abilites)
Happy New Year to you, too!
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hiya mate!
No I meant the initial Rage Ability. The others probably add a feats worth each.
Happy to be of service...eventually.
Thanks!
Cheiromancer said:
No I meant the initial Rage Ability. The others probably add a feats worth each.
Cheiromancer said:But yeah, that helps. Or at least I resolved the issue to my satisfaction, and there is no particular urgency to the question anymore.
Happy to be of service...eventually.
Cheiromancer said:
Thanks!
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hi all!
Okay, I was doing some experimentation for a new website article last night (you'll see it at the weekend) which led me to question the Challenge Ratings for some of the official monsters - namely the most powerful creatures from the Fiend Folio.
A few things I discovered:
There is only one monster in the book with a Challenge Rating above 20 and thats the Thunderworm which is CR 26.
Here are the monsters I worked out (not these were very quick attempts at rating the challenge ratings not super-precise to every detail, but they should not be more than a single point out either way.
Thunder Worm = CR 21 (official), CR 26 (Krust)...it should be noted that the monster itself would take a sharp drop in Challenge Rating (maybe even halve CR) if the party have electricity or sonic energy defenses, its a one trick pony.
Demon, Klurichir = CR 25 (official), CR 18 (Krust)
Demon, Myrmixicus = CR 21 (official), CR 18 (Krust)
Devil, Paeliryon = CR 22 (official), CR 17 (Krust)
Crawling Head = CR 20 (official), CR 15 (Krust)
Blackstone Gigant = CR 18 (official), CR 18 (Krust)...hey they got one right.
Chronotyryn = CR 19 (official), CR 17 (Krust)
I also worked out the Marut from the monster manual:
Marut = CR 15 (official), CR 10 (Krust)
Looking at Fiendish Codex I, they list the revised Myrmixicus as CR 18, and the revised Klurichir as CR 17, which is certainly much better balanced. Another thing I noted about the Klurichir stats were that it has four arms, but it only uses one to attack (with a battleaxe), so you should really give it three claw attacks as well....although if you want to be really picky it should have a greataxe and two claw attacks....and the greataxe should be +4, with +4 worth of special weapon abilities...and you should amalgamate the two pincers into one attack...and add maybe two wing slaps...okay I'll stop now.
I don't have Fiendish Codex II, but I would assume the Paeliryon has its challenge rating cut back to under 20...?
While I have the FC:I open, lets take a look at Demogorgon.
Demogorgon works out at CR 23 - right on the money WotC...maybe they have started using Grim Tales.
Okay, I was doing some experimentation for a new website article last night (you'll see it at the weekend) which led me to question the Challenge Ratings for some of the official monsters - namely the most powerful creatures from the Fiend Folio.
A few things I discovered:
There is only one monster in the book with a Challenge Rating above 20 and thats the Thunderworm which is CR 26.
Here are the monsters I worked out (not these were very quick attempts at rating the challenge ratings not super-precise to every detail, but they should not be more than a single point out either way.
Thunder Worm = CR 21 (official), CR 26 (Krust)...it should be noted that the monster itself would take a sharp drop in Challenge Rating (maybe even halve CR) if the party have electricity or sonic energy defenses, its a one trick pony.
Demon, Klurichir = CR 25 (official), CR 18 (Krust)
Demon, Myrmixicus = CR 21 (official), CR 18 (Krust)
Devil, Paeliryon = CR 22 (official), CR 17 (Krust)
Crawling Head = CR 20 (official), CR 15 (Krust)
Blackstone Gigant = CR 18 (official), CR 18 (Krust)...hey they got one right.
Chronotyryn = CR 19 (official), CR 17 (Krust)
I also worked out the Marut from the monster manual:
Marut = CR 15 (official), CR 10 (Krust)
Looking at Fiendish Codex I, they list the revised Myrmixicus as CR 18, and the revised Klurichir as CR 17, which is certainly much better balanced. Another thing I noted about the Klurichir stats were that it has four arms, but it only uses one to attack (with a battleaxe), so you should really give it three claw attacks as well....although if you want to be really picky it should have a greataxe and two claw attacks....and the greataxe should be +4, with +4 worth of special weapon abilities...and you should amalgamate the two pincers into one attack...and add maybe two wing slaps...okay I'll stop now.
I don't have Fiendish Codex II, but I would assume the Paeliryon has its challenge rating cut back to under 20...?
While I have the FC:I open, lets take a look at Demogorgon.
Demogorgon works out at CR 23 - right on the money WotC...maybe they have started using Grim Tales.
Given how closely their numbers match yours, I'd say that's a reasonable conclusion to draw as well- or maybe they developed their own in-house rigorous CR-estimation process that just happens to closely match your results. But given how much trouble you went through to make one, and the fact that it's OGC and has been officially published in Grim Tales, I think it's more likely they started using the one that's already out there.
Interesting news, just the same...
Interesting news, just the same...
