Changes to Devils and Demons

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So, instead of adding three sentences for clarification (devils are blah blah blah they fight for blah blah blah and their tactics are usually blah blah blah; demons are blah blah blah, they fight for blah blah blah and they usually don't use any tactics whatsoever) they are "redesigning" the creatures to the point of nonrecognition?

Instead of slapping a coat of paint on an old house, they're doing a full remodel. It's been 30 years. It's worth taking a long hard look at what's come before and deciding if it all needs to stay.

I think I know what the main issue here is: pride. The new designers and developers want to leave their mark on the game NO MATTER THE COST, having seen how Monte Cook gained a near-divine status (from some people) after his work on 3E. They crave recognition, and they figured the best way to get it is to be controversial. It's perfectly understandable, but I don't have to like it.

Let's not ascribe this sort of stuff to the developers, who are actual real people who read this board and who don't need to have personal shots taken at them.

 

[Piratecat]

To be honest, I am pretty sure I saw him post in several threads that he has no interest whatsoever in D&D, but 4E may be to his liking. In other words, he is cheering for WotC to basically kill whatever it is that makes the essence of D&D and publish a totally new RPG under the banner.

I think I know what the main issue here is: pride. The new designers and developers want to leave their mark on the game NO MATTER THE COST, having seen how Monte Cook gained a near-divine status (from some people) after his work on 3E. They crave recognition, and they figured the best way to get it is to be controversial. It's perfectly understandable, but I don't have to like it.

How about you don't ascribe motives to people, just because you don't agree with them?

It's okay to disagree, folks; just don't be a jerk about it when someone posts something that is antithetical to your own preference. And don't make claims about other members ("they crave recognition") that are insulting and unproven.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In fact, I am fairly positive they will be presented as a playable race in the FR Player's Guide (due out after the 4E FRCS, probably in September).

Citation?

Because at this moment, I haven't seen anything from WotC that says what "soon" means for gnomes getting a full write-up, which suggests to me that they haven't decided yet.

 

[Jack99]

*Cha-Ching*

Yeah, one would almost think they were looking to piss off some bible belt people. Free Press FTW? A desperate try to make DnD cool in the eyes of the younger generation? Either way, I definitely like it

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In that case are you sure it's D&D that you really want to be playing?

Despite your particular predilections, I'm not sure how getting rid of the Planescape cosmology and backstory has anything at all to do with whether or not something is D&D.

I'm a huge Eberron fan, and that basically took Baator, and the Abyss, and Mount Celestia to the sacred slaughterhouse, and I'm pretty sure I was still playing D&D when we broke in on the lizardman cult and saved the town.

Or are you saying I wasn't actually playing D&D?

 

[IanB]

It should be noted that this creates a big opening (and perhaps demand) for Green Ronin or perhaps Paizo to do a 4E OGL Book of Fiends.

And depending on how the OGL is set up, I think it could even rely on the 3E SRD for some content, like... CE succubi.

 

[Oldtimer]

I just find it lazy is all. How about stop stealing from known religious and make up your own bs.

Bah! A good skald always takes what is familiar and builds his story from that. It's not like they are going to copy text verbatim out of any religious texts. It's still a new story, but built on a somewhat familiar foundation.

Shakespeare was copying old stories for most of his work. Do you consider him lazy as well?

 

[howandwhy99]

These are Setting elements. These hardly affect anything I'll be doing with monsters.

Yeah, all monsters are Setting elements.

 

[Desdichado]

In that case are you sure it's D&D that you really want to be playing?

No, I'm not, but frankly that's a kinda insulting thing to say. I know you're all Mr. Plancescape and whatnot, but I daresay that for most of us, esoteric details about the outer planes is not what makes D&D D&D.

 

[The Lost Muse]

As someone who is relatively new to D&D (started playing in 2001), I wouldn't know anything about planescape if I didn't frequent this board and the WotC boards. Or, I might remember Planescape: Torment, but that'd be it. Out of the 4 groups I have been fortunate to be a part of, only people in one knew anything about more than two of: Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Planescape, and Dark Sun. And that's only because they had been playing since 2e.

I personally like the changes they are suggesting, because it's close to what I do when I homebrew.