Changes to Sorcerer!

[Oni]

I have made some changes to the sorcerer class for an upcoming game of mine. I was trying to shoot for something that went more along with the idea of the sorcerer as it is described in the book, a more natural approach to magic based on being intune with and influencing the world around them.

1. no material components. if the spell has a costly material component the sorcerer must sacrifice 1/4 the gp cost of the material component in xp in order to cast the spell.

2. +5 to the DC of all spellcraft checks against them as sorcerery is much more individual and varied from sorcerer to sorcerer that it would be for more formulaic spellcasters like wizards.

3. Replace the old class skills with these. (I feel the fit the style of the sorcerer class better at least as I envision it.)
animal empathy
diplomacy
intuit direction
listen
sense motive
spot.
concentration [edit: whoops forgot that one]


So what do you think? Any additional changes you believe should be made?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I would add:

Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate.

And subtract:

Intuit Direction, Listen, Spot.

 

[Malin Genie]

I have posted my opinion before, but I think it's worth stating again

Just because sorcerors have Cha as their prime spellcasting attribute doesn't mean they should have Cha-based class skills !

They may be naturally persuasive/intimidating etc but they're not trained at it.

In a previous thread I did, however suggest a skill list for sorcerors of

Concentration, Craft (any), Profession (any)

and three skills of their choice representing their 'background' (as sorcerors are supposed to be those with spontaneous magical talent, which can manifest in anyone.)

So a former circus performer might get Balance, Jump, Tumble. Or a former actor Bluff, Diplomacy, Perform. As long as the player can give a background which fits.

BTW I will also use 'no material components, XP cost = 1/5 expensive gp cost' in my campaign, and I suggested that sorcerors, rather than getting a new spell from the Wiz list, create a new spell each time they get a new spell known. This also makes Spellcraft checks very difficult, and allows more thematic magic and creativity. IMHO, if sorcerors are supposed to be spontaneous users of magic, they shouldn't 'develop' the same spells that wizards have codified.

 

[Oni]

The reason that I chose the skills I did is that I see the sorcerer as being a very intuitive caster with strong ties to the world around them and so I tried to make a skill list that I thought would reflect that intuitive and hyper aware (i.e. slightly empathic with their surroundings) sensibility I see in the sorcerer.

 

[CuriousBard]

I might have gone overboard, but I've revamped the Sorcerer too. But to start I stripped off all need of ANY spell components. No verbal, somatic, or material. Material components costing money cost xps at a rate of 1/25th the value (this is in line with the cost of creating magic items).

Now before anyone starts flaming about how overpowered this makes Sorcerers (they can wear armor, cast while held or silenced, etc), I hit them with a drawback........

Since Sorcerers channel the power directly instead of forming spells at an outside source with incantations, they suffer subdual damage equal to the spell level that they cast. This means that even though your 20th level Sorcerer has 6 slots of each spell that he can cast spontaneously, he is going to be limited by his hpts. Say he has 100hpts. How many of those is he willing to lose to Subdual damage? 20? 50? A 9th level spell with a 5000gp component would cost him 200xps to cost and do 9pts of Subdual damage to him.

I've tried this version in my game and it's working with the player that is running a Sorcerer. The poor guy only has 15hpts so he can't go flinging things around too much.

 

[Dougal DeKree]

Again, we have this useless thread sorc vs wiz. they are vaguely balanced in the base rules, but as soon as u mess with either things go BOOM. Only my opinion, of course.

Dougal DeKree, Gnomish Illusionist

 

[Oni]

Re: Re: Changes to Sorcerer!

Again, we have this useless thread sorc vs wiz. they are vaguely balanced in the base rules, but as soon as u mess with either things go BOOM. Only my opinion, of course.

This thread isn't about the sorcerer vs. the wizard class, at least not for me. This is about making the sorcerer operate, in regards to game mechanics, closer to the way that the sorcerer is described. That being a natural spellcaster with little to no formal training. As it stands, in my opinion, the sorcerer is mechanically to formulaic and lacking the individuality that the sorcerer is desribed as having.

You say that tinkering with the sorcerer class will corrupt the balance of the game, and I agree there is that potential however in regards to the changes I made what would you view as unbalancing. So rather than just say that it is not balanced, I would find it helpful if you could explain why.

 

[Oni]

Since Sorcerers channel the power directly instead of forming spells at an outside source with incantations, they suffer subdual damage equal to the spell level that they cast. This means that even though your 20th level Sorcerer has 6 slots of each spell that he can cast spontaneously, he is going to be limited by his hpts. Say he has 100hpts. How many of those is he willing to lose to Subdual damage? 20? 50? A 9th level spell with a 5000gp component would cost him 200xps to cost and do 9pts of Subdual damage to him.

There is one problem that I can see here, and that is in the way power scales in regards to constitution. Take the difference between and 14 and a 16 chr for the sorcerer as it is written in the PHB. The difference is one bonus spell. However with your system the difference in spell casting between a 14 con and a 16 con is much greater, that extra HP per level is alway going to give them an extra 2 spells of the highest level (or several more lower level ones i.e. magic missle) they can cast over the sorcerer with a con one step lower.

 

[Oni]

*KA-BUMP*

 

[drowdude]

I would add:

Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate.

And subtract:

Intuit Direction, Listen, Spot.

I agree with KapnK on this.