D&D 5E (2024) Changes to the Command spell and its use at the table.

[ECMO3]

This mindset explains a whole whole lot. I'm sure it bleeds over into other aspects of the game as well. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy IMO.

Well yeah it bleeds over, it is a high fantasy, high magic game, but I think that is representative of most modern D&D games.

Only one of the games I am playing right now is of the low magic variety. That is a Darksun game with a lot of house rules, but we are moving back to Forgotten Realms in a couple weeks and I think everyone at the table is excited about it.

I am not sure what you mean by a self fulfilling prophecy though.

 

[JamesLFlowers]

Command is a ONE-WORD spell. So any intelligent creature is going to think of ways around the command. For example "APPROACH" well I was coming over there to kill you anyway. "HALT" well I stopped but it doesn't stop me from shooting you full of arrows as soon as I am able. This has always been a pet peeve in fantasy and sci-fi when someone is given a simple command and doesn't lawyer the hell out of it.

 

[FrogReaver]

Command is a ONE-WORD spell. So any intelligent creature is going to think of ways around the command. For example "APPROACH" well I was coming over there to kill you anyway. "HALT" well I stopped but it doesn't stop me from shooting you full of arrows as soon as I am able. This has always been a pet peeve in fantasy and sci-fi when someone is given a simple command and doesn't lawyer the hell out of it.

Read the spell. It takes their action.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well yeah it bleeds over, it is a high fantasy, high magic game, but I think that is representative of most modern D&D games.

I'm 110% positive that your experience isn't representative of most modern D&D games.

I am not sure what you mean by a self fulfilling prophecy though.

If you expect magic won't be able to be easily defended then your game will make rulings and focus on those aspects of the game where magic is harder to defend. Not to mention any potential house rules or rules interpretations that tend toward making magic stronger. Adventure structure as well. Ala, expecting magic won't be easily defended leads to magic not being easily defended.

 

[ECMO3]

Command is a ONE-WORD spell. So any intelligent creature is going to think of ways around the command. For example "APPROACH" well I was coming over there to kill you anyway. "HALT" well I stopped but it doesn't stop me from shooting you full of arrows as soon as I am able. This has always been a pet peeve in fantasy and sci-fi when someone is given a simple command and doesn't lawyer the hell out of it.

There are specific mechanics associated with the words. You can hombrew this, but if you are playing RAW when you make the command they do what it says in the spell.

Approach. The target moves toward you by the shortest and most direct route, ending its turn if it moves within 5 feet of you.

Halt. On its turn, the target doesn’t move and takes no action or Bonus Action.

The target does not even need to understand the word you use or have ears, you can command a plant, so there is no thinking their way around it RAW.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm 110% positive that your experience isn't representative of most modern D&D games.

I think it is and I have played with dozens of groups from many countries.

I think high fantasy and high magic is the norm for D&D. Official WOTC adventures represent about 50% of games I would say they are mostly high fantasy and high magic as are most 3rd party adventures.

Low magic games are relatively rare and completely non-magical PCs have become virtually unheard of.

If you expect magic won't be able to be easily defended then your game will make rulings and focus on those aspects of the game where magic is harder to defend. Not to mention any potential house rules or rules interpretations that tend toward making magic stronger.

I don't use homebrewed spells or many house rules, so the description decides how easy it is to be defeated. It was WOTC that made Truestrike, Agonizing Blast, Command, Tashas Hideous Laughter, Wrathful Smite, Chromatic Orb, Conjure Minor Elementals, Spirit Guardians, Witchbolt etc a lot more effective. Presumably most of the gaming community likes these changes. Certainly more players take the spells than used to take them (except CME, I have not had a lot of players take that one for some reason).

The changes I do use, to mage slayer and Indomitable, have a near zero effect on how easily magic is defeated in general. I am changing one feat and one class ability that players who play that class do not get until 9th level. It has a significant effect on people who would take that feat (although most don't and one in my game wanted the old feat) and a large effect on high level fighters. Fighters represent about 25% of characters, when you consider multiclasses and the number of sessions below level 9, indomitable is probably something that is in play on a character sheet for about 10% of gaming sessions. It has no effect at all on players who wouldn't take the feat, don't play fighters or multiclass before level 9, and that is most players.

Also let's be clear Indomitable is about saves, not about magic. It works just as well to avoid being swallowed by a Terrasque as it does against Befuddlement.

So yeah it is not like magic is a whole lot more powerful at my table than at others.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Command is a ONE-WORD spell. So any intelligent creature is going to think of ways around the command.

As others have already noted, the spell is specifically written such that this is not true. You get 5 options for what the spell does, and the PHB defines exactly what they do. There is zero interpretation involved from the target.

If the PHB was worded such that the target has to interpret the command, I would agree with you, because it's always bothered me that "DROP" means "drop your weapon" instead of "lay prone" (which is what I personally would've interpreted the Command to mean). But the spell is very clear, the target does not interpret anything, the spell just works as written.

 

[plecostomus]

I have a question about some interactions with this spell. The 2024 stat block Cultist Fanatic has Command and in my game I had a Fanatic cast it on a Warrior of Shadow Monk and command her to Flee.

Flee. The target spends its turn moving away from you by the fastest available means.

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We got to the monk's turn and first she asked me if she could use her Shadow Arts feature to move her Darkness spell while under the Command.

Darkness. You can expend 1 Focus Point to cast the Darkness spell without spell components. You can see within the spell’s area when you cast it with this feature. While the spell persists, you can move its area of Darkness to a space within 60 feet of yourself at the start of each of your turns.

The movement of the Darkness area does not require an Action or Bonus Action, but it also doesn't technically fit to her "spending her turn" moving away from the Fanatic. Since it didn't interfere with her moving away though, I allowed it.

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Next, she wanted to use her Step of the Wind feature, the version that spends a focus point to add Disengage to a Dash BA.

Step of the Wind. You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 Focus Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.

I also thought this was fine and a clever use of the monk's special ability, because otherwise she would have taken opportunity attacks from 4 different enemies she was running past. She did the BA Dash+Disengage, and also used the Dash Action. She got some distance there, and basically ejected herself from the fight.

The only thing that caught me up about this is that I'm used to Command options taking away everything in your turn except following the Command. But there is another exception to this in the spell, which is Approach.

Approach. The target moves toward you by the shortest and most direct route, ending its turn if it moves within 5 feet of you.

The way this is written, it sounds to me like if the target does not get within 5 feet of the person casting Command, it can continue its turn as normal, using an Action and Bonus Action for example.

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And then with Flee, I started wondering if they have to use teleport spells to move away if they have them ("fastest available means"). But I think I can cut that line of thought off by saying "moving away" means only physically moving away. I think a wizard might be a little upset at being forced to Dimension Door or Plane Shift or something by a Level 1 spell. But I would argue the Flee target must always spend its Action on Dash, unless it has some other Action that physically moves it and is faster, to honor the "fastest available means" text.

 

[ECMO3]

Well I disagree with the idea that control spells are ruining 5E, they are the best part of 5E IMO.

That said the changes to Command are a mixed bag. It is more useful now and is extremely effective at all levels. You could argue that this is the only control spell you need given how well it upcasts.

On the other hand you are limited to the specific commands in the spell description now. You used to be able to come up with creative or funny alternatives: "Jump", "Daydream", "Defecate" ..... now those are not options. It is more of a straightforward combat spell now.

What I would like to see is keep the changes that make it usable against anything but allow any one word command.