D&D 5E (2024) Changes to the Command spell and its use at the table.

[Questianor]

Which is built on the survival instinct in this case.

According to what exactly? I don't see that in the spell. Sometimes fleeing is an entirely rational decision made after careful consideration and not based on any instinct at all. But in this case it's based on a magical compulsion.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

According to what exactly? I don't see that in the spell. Sometimes fleeing is an entirely rational decision made after careful consideration and not based on any instinct at all. But in this case it's based on a magical compulsion.

The word "flee".*

Getting stuck in lava is not fleeing.

* I googled it for your convenience:

"Flee" (past tense: fled) means to run away or escape quickly from danger, fear, or a threatening situation. It is a verb used to describe fleeing a location (e.g., "flee the country") or escaping from someone.

 

[Questianor]

Getting stuck

That's a different argument, already discussed. And I see no correlation to what I asked you. I think further discussion with you on this point is likely to be unproductive because you're confusing your own arguments. Have a good day.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That's a different argument, already discussed. And I see no correlation to what I asked you. I think further discussion with you on this point is likely to be unproductive because you're confusing your own arguments. Have a good day.

Sorry. I guess you are confused.
You seem to be unable to follow my argumentation.

Happy gaming to you if that is possible.

 

[Reynard]

This argument also wouldn't hold against hazards a creature deems likely to harm but not kill it. But in principle the argument is sound, in some circumstances.

This I agree with. If the creatures thinks it can survive, doesn't care if it survives, or isn't aware of or can't recognize the threat -- well, bee line (B line?) it is.

 

[ECMO3]

Away leaves a lot of room to interpret.

Only things that are consistent with "move away ... by the fastest means available" - this means move away and there is no room to interpret that as "NOT move away" or "move away less" or at "move away at a slower pace".

Whatever method you can move away that is the fastest is what you do, anything else is up to intepretation.

But the question is if you perceive a wall of fire, a cliff or lava as traversable.

Your perception is irrelevant, it is magic. As a matter of fact if you are in a hallway with an illusionary brick wall behind you, that you think is a real brick wall, and a dead end you still must go through it because that is the fastest means to move away and the magic therefore would compel you to go through it even though you do not know it is there.

If you are in what appears to be an open field but have an invisible wall of force behind you, that you don't know is there, but it is possible to go around it, then you MUST go around it because you can and the magic would make you do this. What you absolutely can't do is use 5 feet of movement and run into the wall and then say "Oh well I don't know where to go so I am done."

The only thing the magic can't compel you to do is things that are not physically possible, like for example go through a stone wall, or move when you are grappled or paralyzed.

Maybe I'd just give a second chance to save at this point. Maybe against intelligence. I don't know.*

Why? Intelligence, perception and choice has nothing to do with it. You can be a completely unthinking plant or a construct and you would still do what the spell said to do.

*I guess this is something I would get an agreement on with my players. They would certainly agree on not suiciding due to a level 1 spell.
We also got to an agreement on suggestion.

Well houseruling is fine, but that is not RAW or in this case RAI. I hope you would get this agreement in session 0 and not when I cast command to get your boss to run off the cliff.

Also in terms of moving through walls, off of cliffs etc, I will note this is no more powerful than the Push weapon mastery which is available to lots of classes at 1st level and is at will.

 

[Reynard]

Your perception is irrelevant, it is magic. As a matter of fact if you are in a hallway with an illusionary brick wall behind you, that you think is a real brick wall, and a dead end you still must go through it because the magic would compel you to go through it and you can go through it to move away.

If you are in what appears to be an open field but have an invisible wall of force behind you, that you don't know is there, but it is possible to go around it, then you MUST go around it because you can and the magic would make you do this.

These interpretations are not supported by the text.

 

[ECMO3]

These interpretations are not supported by the text.

Yes they are. The spell tells you what the target does and its senses are not part of it at all. The text says:

"Flee. The target spends its turn moving away from you by the fastest available means."

It says "fastest available means" not the fastest means chosen by the target, nor the means that he believes is fastest, nor the fastest means that he can see, nor fastest means that are safe, it is the fastest means that exist.

I will add this as well - if you have some difficult terrain in behind you; say a patch of quicksand or from a spike growth, that you can't see, the spell would compel you to go around it skirting the edge, even though you don't know it is there, as that is faster than going through the difficult terrain and the spell will make you go away using the "fastest means available" which is not in this case going through the difficult terrain.

 

[Mistwell]

This I agree with. If the creatures thinks it can survive, doesn't care if it survives, or isn't aware of or can't recognize the threat -- well, bee line (B line?) it is.

There is no decision point in the spell's description. It's intended, I think, to be weighed against forced movement. Given you don't need to even understand the command spoke, and it's a compulsion, I just don't see the creature having the option to think "But I might die and I need to avoid dying" in the spell anymore. They have the option to flee away from you by the fastest available means. Jumping off a cliff would be the fastest available means, if the cliff drop leads them away from you.

 

[Umbran]

I will add this as well - if you have some difficult terrain in behind you; say a patch of quicksand or from a spike growth, that you can't see, the spell would compel you to go around it skirting the edge, even though you don't know it is there, as that is faster than going through the difficult terrain and the spell will make you go away using the "fastest means available" which is not in this case going through the difficult terrain.

This is not 3e, where we are expected to read as explicitly accurately as possible. 5e uses more natural language and common-sense than prior editions.

Command does not move the target, it makes the target move as best it can. If it does not have the ability to fly, flying is beyond its best, and it will not fly. If it doesn't know about something in the path, taking that into account is also beyond its best.