Changing Game Systems

[Aethas]

I wasn't sure where to post this question, but here seemed to be appropriate. I apologize if it should've been somewhere else.

My group and I are looking for a different system to try out. We started playing D&D 4E a couple years ago and loved it. Since then a few of our members, myself included, have tried out GURPS and enjoyed it, but our main focus was always 4E. A few months ago, we decided we wanted to try out something new, but couldn't decide what to try. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for other systems? Maybe some pros and cons of a few? We're currently looking at Shadowrun and Pathfinder, but are open to pretty much anything. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[kitsune9]

Well, I can help you with Pathfinder.

Pros
1. All the crunchy goodness from 3.5 updated with a new take on the traditional classes.
2. Streamlined resolution for things like grapple, disarm, sunder, etc.
3. Revision to a lot of spells from 3.5, but nothing truly major.
4. Compatible with 3.x

Cons
1. If you had serious problems with 3.5, Pathfinder is probably not going to brighten your mood.
2. Pathfinder is a more powered up version of 3.5 with more feats and class abilities. If you're looking from something more scaled back or powered down, this isn't it.
3. The same level of prep time involved in 3.5 is still required in Pathfinder which is dependent upon your experience and own sense of efficiency.

I'm a big fan of Pathfinder, but I know that there's a lot of other cool games out there other than just this one. Here's another one I can recommend for you as well--Warhammer FRP 2e. While I own 3e as well, I haven't played it yet so I can give you the pros and cons breakdown.

Warhammer FRP 2e

Pros
1. Easy streamlined mechanics (everything uses d10 or d100).
2. Grim and gritty if you like it.
3. Lots of career options and a more well-developed magic system.

Cons
1. You'll have to look for 2e as it's not supported since the newest edition is 3e.
2. If you're into long-term campaigns, this is probably too grim and gritty to make that a reality without having to introduce houserules and such.

Best of luck to your search and happy gaming!

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Going from D&D to Pathfinder is not a big change of pace. You're still playing D&D, basically.

Shadowrun is fun. Combat are fast and deadly and the game can lead to very cinematic moments. Explosives, car chases, gun fights... And the potential action scenes are endless; pirates in the carriebean, Matrix gunfight in high tech building, Predators remake in the jungles, Mission Impossible or 28 days later...

Downside is there are a few traps to avoid unless you are a detail junkie; A mission involving extracting a scientist from a high security facility is fun... until it turns into an entire session wasted planning the heist with no gaming to show for it. If you start dissecting any plan thrown together in half an hour, there is no end of potential flaws in sight and you will go nowhere fast. You need to agree on a workable degree of realism based on your group and taste but my advice is to avoid going hardcore.

Another pitfall is falling into a pattern of just doing runs for nuyen. It's the natural flow of the game; it encourages you to create mercenaries. But it gets boring fast. You should think of a story arc to tie some it together.

Last campaign I did was a vengeance. A bunch of survivor from corporate wrongdoings banded together. Lacking ressource, they went on runs but every three adventure or so involved them using the ressources they were gathering to get a step closer to settling the score. Very fun. They really liked those adventure where they were their own employers and setting their own objectives.

Final pitfalls is it's not a balanced game. Watch out PC development, left unchecked some PCs might end up too strong under certain situation. I.E. It's no fun if one PC is such a combat beast compared to everyone else that you can no longer have him in the same fight as less combat-savvy PCs for example. And often these combat beasts are useless at anything else. I usually force my players to stretch their ressources, enforcing the need for secondary focuses in order to avoid this problem. And I never kept the same campaign going for much more than 20 session or so. I don't think this game scales very well in the long run.

All in all, some of my best gaming is from SR but it has to be handled with care.

 

[Argyle King]

You've mentioned that you and your group enjoyed GURPS. You could try a more dedicated GURPS game for a little while and see how that goes. Depending on what type of game you want, it may be helpful to pick up something beyond the Basic Set and see how that works out. Heck, if you really wanted to, you could covert your D&D 4E material into GURPS mechanics.

 

[Katana_Geldar]

I recommend Star Wars Saga, the combat and skills system is almost identical to 4E and it's a much smoother and faster system.

 

[Sanglorian]

How radical a departure are you prepared to make, Aethas? Pathfinder, Shadowrun and GURPS are all quite mechanically complex -- which is great if that's what you're after.

But if you'd like to try a different style of gaming, I recommend Lady Blackbird or GHOST/ECHO.

The main pros for these games is that they may be unlike anything you have ever played before, and that they're free. You can check them out right now and see if they would suit you.

The main con is that they are likely to be unfamiliar. Being short and rather unpolished games, it may be difficult to pick up how to play them. The rules themselves are fairly straightforward, but the play style may not be.

Another con is that these are more one-off or short games, while it seems like you've been mainly playing campaigns. Polaris is built for longer-term play. It's not free per se, but you can pay what you want for it (from a dollar up).

I hope this helps.

 

[Aethas]

Kitsune: Thanks for the tips on Pathfinder. We're going to keep looking into that one. As for Warhammer, we hadn't even thought of it. I'm going to throw it out on the table and see what the rest of the group thinks.

Malenkirk: From what I've seen of Shadowrun, it looks like something that could be incredibly fun. Your caution of character development worries me a bit, though. We have one player that has been all about optimizing his character for combat in our 4E campaigns. It sounds like this could be a problem in a Shadowrun game.

Johnny: Those of us who've played GURPS enjoyed it immensely. This might be the system we end up choosing.

Katana: We hadn't thought of Star Wars Saga either. I'll definitely give it a look.

Sanglorian: Thanks for the links you gave. Both of those games look pretty good, especially GHOST/ECHO. If we take too long deciding on a system, these look like a fun way to still get together and play. Polaris also seems like something we could get into.

Thank you for all the replies, and we're still open for any other suggestions anyone might have.

 

[Argyle King]

Cool, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I know that GURPS can sometimes look scary to new players because of the options available. However, I've found that it turns out to be (for me anyway) a well put together system and one which is far easier to run and play than is often believed.


Even if you do decide to settle on it, I'd still suggest giving other things a look. I think it's a good thing to expose yourself to different gaming ideals. Also, if you find something you like, it's possible to convert it over into GURPS.


Happy hunting; I hope you and your group find something that matches what you want and provides for the best possible experience for all of you.

 

[amerigoV]

Savage Worlds. This document gives the design history/philosophy, which highlights what the system does and does not do.

http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SWEX/MakingofSW.pdf



WARNING - SW will ruin you for other systems.

 

[Smeelbo]

Fate

Something very different are the variety of RPGs based around the FATE engine: Spirit of the Century, Diaspora, Starblazer Adventures, Legends of Anglerre, Dresden Files. FATE is centered around story telling, while providing sufficient crunch.

Smeelbo