Chaotic Good Theocracies
- Thread starter Shades of Green
- Start date
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
The Church of England is a riff on Catholicism, which is about as Lawful a religion as can be.Altalazar said:
Altalazar
First Post
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I thought it was the Church of England, and no longer in charge of legal policy even though it is still the official state religion.
In D&D terms, I'd say that all you need is a CG religion as the official religion of the land to have a CG theocracy.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
The Church of England is Catholicism that allowed the king to divorce. That's the root of the theological schism: "Hey, the king wants a divorce."Altalazar said:
"Well, he can't have one."
"Right, setting up our own church, then."
Altalazar
First Post
Whizbang Dustyboots said:The Church of England is Catholicism that allowed the king to divorce. That's the root of the theological schism: "Hey, the king wants a divorce."
"Well, he can't have one."
"Right, setting up our own church, then."
Right, so it isn't Catholicism, and hasn't been for centuries. It is its own church.
WayneLigon
Adventurer
Whizbang Dustyboots said:The Church of England is Catholicism that allowed the king to divorce. That's the root of the theological schism: "Hey, the king wants a divorce."
"Well, he can't have one."
"Right, setting up our own church, then."
Tea and cake with the vicar.... or Death?
Um, tea and cake?
Right, here you go.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
It's Catholicism with the serial numbers filed off. And, like Catholicism, it's highly Lawful in that it has a strict heirarchy (topped with the monarch rather than the pope) and a highly codified way of viewing the world, both temporal and spiritual.Altalazar said:
It's hard to think of a religion more Lawful than the CoE.
zoroaster100
First Post
I can envision a Chaotic Good theocracy of the religion of Tritherion in Greyhawk. The official creed would be that every individual must find salvation through his own relationship with the divine and his own actions to liberate others who are not free and preserve the liberty of all. Each individual would be encouraged by the official church to find their own path. However, religions, organizations and individuals who clearly oppose the creed of the theocracy would be persecuted or dismantled. The official church would whip up hostility to such interlopers, not only the force of the government, but also among the masses and various individual followers, to take action into their own hands to rid the country of the offending would-be tyrants.
WayneLigon
Adventurer
I generally see Chaotic societies as fairly small ones. The government is by 'town meeting' where everyone has a voice and no-one is really all that much above anyone else. Usually someone is 'first among equals' because not everyone has the time or brains to put into that kind of job but if he loses the confidence of the ruled, he steps aside and gives someone else a try. Society is held together by shared culture, manners, family bonds and geography.
The theocracy part probably plays out like this: they worship a pantheon but like most pantheists if someone comes along with a new god, they find room for him in their pantheon. The priests have demonstrated wisdom (gaining power 'because my goddess told me so' doesn't cut it in a chaotic society - you have to show you have the goods rather than 'received wisdom'), so for the most part people leave the 'running a country' details to them.
They aren't dogmatic and they aren't inflexible, so they pretty much let people do as they please. Most everyone else does likewise. They try to cultivate 'good' in people, mainly be reminding them to treat others as they would like to be treated. They live their lives like the rest of the people and discuss the tenets of their god only if someone comes to them and asks about it. There isn't even a central text. Priests relate moral lessons by personal tales or observances. They attempt to be role models and act according to their tenets, instead of 'do as I say not as I do'. They never tell: they show, and if someone follows them, well then bully for them.
An outside observer would be hard pressed to tell they have a religion much less a theocracy.
If the new cult turns out to be evil, they get shunned. Nobody sells them seeds. Nobody buys their milk. No-one talks to them or lets their kids be around them. Attempts to be converted are met with a headshake and being ignored, or they just get laughed at. If people start going over to the new cult, well, people let 'em.
Chaos is always and only about choice, personal choice.
If they join out of their own free will, well... the rest of the family and community will be sad but will chalk it up to 'well, we just didn't know Bob as well as we thought we did'. His family will talk to Bob about it, and see what the new people offer that's so different or better. As Bob sinks deeper into Evil, they probably drift away from Bob, saddened that he's chosen to go down this dark path and now having so little in common with him that he's become like a stranger.
Now, if Bob is being coerced into the cult in some way either through subtle evil influence or just by them limiting his choices until he has 'no choice' but to join the cult even if it's of his own free will... then things start to get really nasty. For the cultists. First, Bob's relatives and friends get into the act. They go to the cultists and take Bob home, by force if needed. The priests try, first, to see if something can be worked out. Then they try to see if the cult will simply leave the area and leave their people alone. If that doesn't work, then the priests get some allies and buddies together, beats the crap out of the cultists and then burns down their barn with them in it.
The theocracy part probably plays out like this: they worship a pantheon but like most pantheists if someone comes along with a new god, they find room for him in their pantheon. The priests have demonstrated wisdom (gaining power 'because my goddess told me so' doesn't cut it in a chaotic society - you have to show you have the goods rather than 'received wisdom'), so for the most part people leave the 'running a country' details to them.
They aren't dogmatic and they aren't inflexible, so they pretty much let people do as they please. Most everyone else does likewise. They try to cultivate 'good' in people, mainly be reminding them to treat others as they would like to be treated. They live their lives like the rest of the people and discuss the tenets of their god only if someone comes to them and asks about it. There isn't even a central text. Priests relate moral lessons by personal tales or observances. They attempt to be role models and act according to their tenets, instead of 'do as I say not as I do'. They never tell: they show, and if someone follows them, well then bully for them.
An outside observer would be hard pressed to tell they have a religion much less a theocracy.
If the new cult turns out to be evil, they get shunned. Nobody sells them seeds. Nobody buys their milk. No-one talks to them or lets their kids be around them. Attempts to be converted are met with a headshake and being ignored, or they just get laughed at. If people start going over to the new cult, well, people let 'em.
Chaos is always and only about choice, personal choice.
If they join out of their own free will, well... the rest of the family and community will be sad but will chalk it up to 'well, we just didn't know Bob as well as we thought we did'. His family will talk to Bob about it, and see what the new people offer that's so different or better. As Bob sinks deeper into Evil, they probably drift away from Bob, saddened that he's chosen to go down this dark path and now having so little in common with him that he's become like a stranger.
Now, if Bob is being coerced into the cult in some way either through subtle evil influence or just by them limiting his choices until he has 'no choice' but to join the cult even if it's of his own free will... then things start to get really nasty. For the cultists. First, Bob's relatives and friends get into the act. They go to the cultists and take Bob home, by force if needed. The priests try, first, to see if something can be worked out. Then they try to see if the cult will simply leave the area and leave their people alone. If that doesn't work, then the priests get some allies and buddies together, beats the crap out of the cultists and then burns down their barn with them in it.
Last edited:
davidschwartznz
First Post
I'm going to ignore the discussion of the America legal system, lest this thread get locked, and return to the orginal question:
I think what you're looking for, Shades, is something like religion in rural India. Hinduism, as a polytheistic religion, absorbs deities from other religions and even creates new deities as needed. A person professing divine wisdom - backed up with an ascetic lifestyle and a few miracles - is revered as an agent of the gods, regardless of the specific god he's selling.
A CG theocracy could be one the common people respect the wishes of any cleric regardless of faith. Perhaps different faiths perform different functions in the bureacracy. Social pressure (e.g. angry mobs) keeps clerics generally good-aligned, and the sheer number of different faiths means there is no monolithic rule (chaotic-aligned).
I think what you're looking for, Shades, is something like religion in rural India. Hinduism, as a polytheistic religion, absorbs deities from other religions and even creates new deities as needed. A person professing divine wisdom - backed up with an ascetic lifestyle and a few miracles - is revered as an agent of the gods, regardless of the specific god he's selling.
A CG theocracy could be one the common people respect the wishes of any cleric regardless of faith. Perhaps different faiths perform different functions in the bureacracy. Social pressure (e.g. angry mobs) keeps clerics generally good-aligned, and the sheer number of different faiths means there is no monolithic rule (chaotic-aligned).
