Satin Knights
First Post
Emily is on my list to get to, but I have been a little busy with RL things lately. I will get to her soon. Since I have three summoners, everyone else was expecting me to do it anyways. 
Character Submission Thread
OperationMaximumBear
First Post
Thanks for the offers, Systole and Satin Knights, but I wasn't trying to jump the queue, truly. It'll be a while before there's an adventure slot open anyway, right? So please, don't put me ahead of your RL things
Systole, I was looking for your opinion specifically, but you've misunderstood why. I wasn't "basically asking" about the DR/evil thing; it could have been her Diplomacy bonus, her stat spread (double sevens!), or something else I hadn't thought of. I wanted to hear from you because, from my perspective, you embarked on a vituperative, highly personal, and wholly unnecessary attack on a guy who'd already agreed to withdraw his character and apologised for taking up peoples' time. That you feel it's your unofficial job to do things like that is good to know.
I'm glad you don't have a problem with me or with Emily; do you see why I thought you might? And why I asked out of morbid curiosity instead of a desire for healthy feedback?
I almost didn't post this; I don't want to tell you guys what to do with your community. But yesterday I was excited to play Pathfinder here, and today I'm not as much. For what it's worth.
Systole, I was looking for your opinion specifically, but you've misunderstood why. I wasn't "basically asking" about the DR/evil thing; it could have been her Diplomacy bonus, her stat spread (double sevens!), or something else I hadn't thought of. I wanted to hear from you because, from my perspective, you embarked on a vituperative, highly personal, and wholly unnecessary attack on a guy who'd already agreed to withdraw his character and apologised for taking up peoples' time. That you feel it's your unofficial job to do things like that is good to know.
I'm glad you don't have a problem with me or with Emily; do you see why I thought you might? And why I asked out of morbid curiosity instead of a desire for healthy feedback?
I almost didn't post this; I don't want to tell you guys what to do with your community. But yesterday I was excited to play Pathfinder here, and today I'm not as much. For what it's worth.
Systole
First Post
You're welcome to that point of view if you want it. I do, however, think you're wrong. Was my post sharply worded? Absolutely. Was it personal? I don't think so. It was an honest review of my reaction when I read the character sheet: a sinking feeling. And I know myself well enough to know that I do not want to play with that character.
But as to whether my post was wholly unnecessary, I couldn't disagree more. This is not a character issue so much as a playstyle issue. The character under discussion used a bunch of wonky rules and loopholes to chain together an arguably abusive game mechanic. The discussion to that point had focused on the legality of the particular game mechanic. It has not addressed the larger issue, which is that, in my opinion, the playstyle that would generate such a mechanic in the first place is possibly not a great fit for LPF. So we could have (a) argued about the legality of game mechanics on character after character until everyone was exasperated or (b) we could switch over to a discussion that gets to the actual issue. I chose (b). I made my point of view clear (I hope), and then suggested a thorough examination of my position to see whether it matched his own.
Look, I'm not trying to scare people away or to be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. What I do want is for people to be honest with not only us but with themselves about what they want out of a game. And I want people to understand that what they want may or may not match the wants of the community that we have here. It's not a big deal if it doesn't -- different strokes and all that -- but playing a game with a playstyle that doesn't match your own only makes everyone miserable. And I don't want that for LPF.
But as to whether my post was wholly unnecessary, I couldn't disagree more. This is not a character issue so much as a playstyle issue. The character under discussion used a bunch of wonky rules and loopholes to chain together an arguably abusive game mechanic. The discussion to that point had focused on the legality of the particular game mechanic. It has not addressed the larger issue, which is that, in my opinion, the playstyle that would generate such a mechanic in the first place is possibly not a great fit for LPF. So we could have (a) argued about the legality of game mechanics on character after character until everyone was exasperated or (b) we could switch over to a discussion that gets to the actual issue. I chose (b). I made my point of view clear (I hope), and then suggested a thorough examination of my position to see whether it matched his own.
Look, I'm not trying to scare people away or to be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. What I do want is for people to be honest with not only us but with themselves about what they want out of a game. And I want people to understand that what they want may or may not match the wants of the community that we have here. It's not a big deal if it doesn't -- different strokes and all that -- but playing a game with a playstyle that doesn't match your own only makes everyone miserable. And I don't want that for LPF.
Satin Knights
First Post
Okay, since I am the synthesist expert, I should throw my two bits in. I've been a little busy lately.
As to the claws and bite, I see things this way. You have the summoner's form. It has its attack methods. That gets overlaid with an eidolon suit. That suit is on the outside. Only outside attack methods are usable. But then, as an example, we have the "a sorcerer grows a set of claws for 1 round" that adds attack forms, outside of the current body. So, temporary attack methods from the inner person can be added and used. Another example is the Dragon Disciple's wings at 9th level. Those would be temporary adds to the outside, so they count. Permanent attack methods of the original form do not, as they are engulfed. So, yes, paragraph one of the wiki applies, and paragraph four applies. But, in a very convoluted manor.
The tiefling in question had permanent claws, and that was being enveloped by the eidolon suit. With some discussion and compromise, I would have probably allowed the claws. The whole area is a bit fuzzy.
Another thing that sat a little sour with me is the "my wings and claws are just wispy shadows, until I actually need them." Both of the traits to get them actually give permanent attributes. The mixed blood fluff trying to negate the drawbacks of the traits of wings and claws, when there isn't a "shadow form" ability in the sheet is slightly annoying. The proper method is that they are solid all the time, and get engulfed by the eidolon suit. The tail also gets engulfed. I think that was implied.
My quip about the darts? They are just such a poor weapon choice. A sling has 2.5x the distance reach for the same damage. A spear is going to have 50% more damage. And, in non-fused form, the dart is going to be doing 1d4-2 damage. Well, that is 50/50 as to if you are only doing non-lethal damage. Yes, she has several summon monster SLAs to use, but she cannot totally rely on that to get her out of every situation. As an example, we had a Lore Oracle character back about six months ago that wanted to throw tarot cards as shuriken, with a strength penalty. She ended up as her only weapon only able to do 1 non-lethal damage, unless she could crit. I flat out said "No, I am not approving that character" on the reason that she would be a drain on the party and could not contribute in a fight. It would have been one thing if she was a healer, but just a knowledge bot that can't fight, well we have bards for that.
Another one, The Cart: The cart weighs 200 lbs. She is stuffing it with 234 lbs of stuff. So, 434 lbs to "push or drag" as the the tables would call it. So, Rose's 7 strength allows her to pull a cart with a combined weight of 350 lbs. If the eidolon is not there for the extra oomf, she is stuck where she stands. That is, unless she abandons the cart and her possessions.
The shield issue. The character is not proficient with the weapon. A throwing shield is a weapon. Therefore, she doesn't get to use any of the special properties that come with proficiency. Therefore, its use becomes that as a normal shield, not a throwing one. That means dropping it becomes a move action. Ding. Breaks the chain of actions being put together.
But, my issue with it was the "I can chain all this together" and actually come out with something so poor. That same 300 gp spent on the shield could have been spent on twelve scrolls of Mage Armor, achieving twice the armor bonus. Characters level a bit faster than normal in LPF because we give you Time Based XP and GP for the days you are in an adventure. So, roughly 6-7 fights will get you to 2nd level. Since some of those fights will be in the same hour, 12 scrolls are going to carry you on into third level. So, if you did things in the optimal fashion, it would be 12 scrolls of Mage Armor, take Shield as one of your two spells, and rock an AC 24 for every fight until 3rd level if you spend the first round buffing. That is a whole lot better than the AC 18 she was trying to achieve. To string together a chain that is very grey area, and then get results that are quite inferior to known good tactics, that looks like ... well ... I don't know how to finish this sentence.
Emily on the other hand. She is stacking her strengths. High charisma. A racial bonus to charisma. A class that uses charisma as its focus stat. Using the skilled evolution effectively. Realizing that the skilled is actually a racial bonus and doing the proper replacement. Good trait choice. Yeah, she is rocking a +18 Diplomacy check. As a GM, I am cringing, but I know I gotta suck it up. As a player, I am going "Bravo!"
Yes. Systole stomped harder than he should have. I think I can safely say that the two of you have seen him at his worst. He is normally a cuddly goofball, unless he has been drinking. Then, well, can we say 'entertaining'? But, you have a 1 in 4 chance of him being your GM in your first game. Over the first 10 levels of your career, he will be in your party or a GM with a 99% likelihood. He stated things like he did so you don't get a month or six in and then find out there might be a conflict when you thought all was peachy.
Now for some friendly advice: The synthesist may not always be in fused form. Tasanto has been in a game for five months, or three days in game, and has spent the effectively first three encounters in an unfused state. He did get to frighten a couple peasants for a bit, but has spent most of his time out of form. Sometimes a big cattaur is not the best thing to be when you are trying to be inconspicuous. So, being a viable character when the beast is not around is highly suggested.
Rose needs some work. She can be salvaged, but as a synthesist, she is running fairly suboptimal right now. When was the last time you saw a dwarven sorcerer? Yeah, she is in that vein. Then again, I have a multi-classed mermaid synthesist. And my triple classes summoner, nobody likes to talk about him. So, suboptimal is not a, or the, problem. Stacking together a bunch of corner cases to get a result that could be argued, well that is where the feathers got ruffled. Start basic. Make sure your strengths are enhanced by the choices, and adding one thing does not block or hinder another. I mean, I couldn't see any reason to take the wings. They get smothered into the suit.
Well, that is getting long enough. Time to hit the button.
As to the claws and bite, I see things this way. You have the summoner's form. It has its attack methods. That gets overlaid with an eidolon suit. That suit is on the outside. Only outside attack methods are usable. But then, as an example, we have the "a sorcerer grows a set of claws for 1 round" that adds attack forms, outside of the current body. So, temporary attack methods from the inner person can be added and used. Another example is the Dragon Disciple's wings at 9th level. Those would be temporary adds to the outside, so they count. Permanent attack methods of the original form do not, as they are engulfed. So, yes, paragraph one of the wiki applies, and paragraph four applies. But, in a very convoluted manor.
The tiefling in question had permanent claws, and that was being enveloped by the eidolon suit. With some discussion and compromise, I would have probably allowed the claws. The whole area is a bit fuzzy.
Another thing that sat a little sour with me is the "my wings and claws are just wispy shadows, until I actually need them." Both of the traits to get them actually give permanent attributes. The mixed blood fluff trying to negate the drawbacks of the traits of wings and claws, when there isn't a "shadow form" ability in the sheet is slightly annoying. The proper method is that they are solid all the time, and get engulfed by the eidolon suit. The tail also gets engulfed. I think that was implied.
My quip about the darts? They are just such a poor weapon choice. A sling has 2.5x the distance reach for the same damage. A spear is going to have 50% more damage. And, in non-fused form, the dart is going to be doing 1d4-2 damage. Well, that is 50/50 as to if you are only doing non-lethal damage. Yes, she has several summon monster SLAs to use, but she cannot totally rely on that to get her out of every situation. As an example, we had a Lore Oracle character back about six months ago that wanted to throw tarot cards as shuriken, with a strength penalty. She ended up as her only weapon only able to do 1 non-lethal damage, unless she could crit. I flat out said "No, I am not approving that character" on the reason that she would be a drain on the party and could not contribute in a fight. It would have been one thing if she was a healer, but just a knowledge bot that can't fight, well we have bards for that.
Another one, The Cart: The cart weighs 200 lbs. She is stuffing it with 234 lbs of stuff. So, 434 lbs to "push or drag" as the the tables would call it. So, Rose's 7 strength allows her to pull a cart with a combined weight of 350 lbs. If the eidolon is not there for the extra oomf, she is stuck where she stands. That is, unless she abandons the cart and her possessions.
The shield issue. The character is not proficient with the weapon. A throwing shield is a weapon. Therefore, she doesn't get to use any of the special properties that come with proficiency. Therefore, its use becomes that as a normal shield, not a throwing one. That means dropping it becomes a move action. Ding. Breaks the chain of actions being put together.
But, my issue with it was the "I can chain all this together" and actually come out with something so poor. That same 300 gp spent on the shield could have been spent on twelve scrolls of Mage Armor, achieving twice the armor bonus. Characters level a bit faster than normal in LPF because we give you Time Based XP and GP for the days you are in an adventure. So, roughly 6-7 fights will get you to 2nd level. Since some of those fights will be in the same hour, 12 scrolls are going to carry you on into third level. So, if you did things in the optimal fashion, it would be 12 scrolls of Mage Armor, take Shield as one of your two spells, and rock an AC 24 for every fight until 3rd level if you spend the first round buffing. That is a whole lot better than the AC 18 she was trying to achieve. To string together a chain that is very grey area, and then get results that are quite inferior to known good tactics, that looks like ... well ... I don't know how to finish this sentence.
Emily on the other hand. She is stacking her strengths. High charisma. A racial bonus to charisma. A class that uses charisma as its focus stat. Using the skilled evolution effectively. Realizing that the skilled is actually a racial bonus and doing the proper replacement. Good trait choice. Yeah, she is rocking a +18 Diplomacy check. As a GM, I am cringing, but I know I gotta suck it up. As a player, I am going "Bravo!"
Yes. Systole stomped harder than he should have. I think I can safely say that the two of you have seen him at his worst. He is normally a cuddly goofball, unless he has been drinking. Then, well, can we say 'entertaining'? But, you have a 1 in 4 chance of him being your GM in your first game. Over the first 10 levels of your career, he will be in your party or a GM with a 99% likelihood. He stated things like he did so you don't get a month or six in and then find out there might be a conflict when you thought all was peachy.
Now for some friendly advice: The synthesist may not always be in fused form. Tasanto has been in a game for five months, or three days in game, and has spent the effectively first three encounters in an unfused state. He did get to frighten a couple peasants for a bit, but has spent most of his time out of form. Sometimes a big cattaur is not the best thing to be when you are trying to be inconspicuous. So, being a viable character when the beast is not around is highly suggested.
Rose needs some work. She can be salvaged, but as a synthesist, she is running fairly suboptimal right now. When was the last time you saw a dwarven sorcerer? Yeah, she is in that vein. Then again, I have a multi-classed mermaid synthesist. And my triple classes summoner, nobody likes to talk about him. So, suboptimal is not a, or the, problem. Stacking together a bunch of corner cases to get a result that could be argued, well that is where the feathers got ruffled. Start basic. Make sure your strengths are enhanced by the choices, and adding one thing does not block or hinder another. I mean, I couldn't see any reason to take the wings. They get smothered into the suit.
Well, that is getting long enough. Time to hit the button.
Satin Knights
First Post
Reviewing Emily:
a) I changed a few instances of Magical Beast to Eidolon. The Magical Beast has a specific game context that differs from what is going on.
b) I swapped Ability for STR in a couple places. It is the clearest usage.
c) I marked both traits as being from our custom Capable category so the next person doesn't go looking for a source for them.
d) Escape Artist was missing. I added it.
e) I added in the free evolutions that she gets.
Now, on to advice.
1) Light. Both versions of you see in the dark. Do you need to take this cantrip? If you have humans in your party, they should be carrying their own torches or other light source. So, you do not need to repetitively cast that spell. You have many others to choose from. LPF also has a list of Alternative cantrips that you can choose from as well. Umbrella, Jolt and Breeze are nice from that list. Oh, I read the fluff. Well, this is the advice part.
2) Grab a weapon or two. A crossbow is a good weapon with a decent range, and it ignores STR modifiers. Why? You can only have one SLA summons going at a time. If that summoned creature lasts 3 rounds, what are you going to do to contribute the other two rounds. If you are in fused form, sometimes you can only attack from range. That is one of the Achilles Heals of a synthesist. A spear is also a good generic weapon. Claw/Claw/Bite sounds good until you are fighting a ghast, or a slime mold.
3) Find a pretty picture and add it. Actually find more than one. We would also like a pic of the fused form.
4) Go shopping. Do I actually have to tell a girl that? LPF has a 100% sell back value policy. It just makes accounting easier. So, you can sell back any item you bought and didn't use in your adventure. So, a general rule we tell people is to spend all but about the last 10 gp.
5) The DR 1/evil doesn't bother me a bit as a GM, because even a kobold bypasses it. (I think he does, and it doesn't require outsider evil) It's effectiveness is not that great, because you will be fighting evil 75% of the time. It's still worth taking for the first level where you get double effectiveness compared to the rest of the levels it is available to you. A synthesist has HPs to spare. So, if you are going to change your mind, a skill point is probably best. Those are in short supply for you.
Most people don't like to multi-class. But, if and only if you are interested, a single level dip in cleric would be good. It would require shifting around the stats a little bit. But having a daily battery of 8d6 healing in channels along with a few CLW spells will go along way in keeping a party healthy. Three of Cortessa's domains look good and fit well with the choices you have already made.
Emily has her first APPROVAL of two. Any non-judge can do the other one.
a) I changed a few instances of Magical Beast to Eidolon. The Magical Beast has a specific game context that differs from what is going on.
b) I swapped Ability for STR in a couple places. It is the clearest usage.
c) I marked both traits as being from our custom Capable category so the next person doesn't go looking for a source for them.
d) Escape Artist was missing. I added it.
e) I added in the free evolutions that she gets.
Now, on to advice.
1) Light. Both versions of you see in the dark. Do you need to take this cantrip? If you have humans in your party, they should be carrying their own torches or other light source. So, you do not need to repetitively cast that spell. You have many others to choose from. LPF also has a list of Alternative cantrips that you can choose from as well. Umbrella, Jolt and Breeze are nice from that list. Oh, I read the fluff. Well, this is the advice part.
2) Grab a weapon or two. A crossbow is a good weapon with a decent range, and it ignores STR modifiers. Why? You can only have one SLA summons going at a time. If that summoned creature lasts 3 rounds, what are you going to do to contribute the other two rounds. If you are in fused form, sometimes you can only attack from range. That is one of the Achilles Heals of a synthesist. A spear is also a good generic weapon. Claw/Claw/Bite sounds good until you are fighting a ghast, or a slime mold.
3) Find a pretty picture and add it. Actually find more than one. We would also like a pic of the fused form.
4) Go shopping. Do I actually have to tell a girl that?
LPF has a 100% sell back value policy. It just makes accounting easier. So, you can sell back any item you bought and didn't use in your adventure. So, a general rule we tell people is to spend all but about the last 10 gp.5) The DR 1/evil doesn't bother me a bit as a GM, because even a kobold bypasses it. (I think he does, and it doesn't require outsider evil) It's effectiveness is not that great, because you will be fighting evil 75% of the time. It's still worth taking for the first level where you get double effectiveness compared to the rest of the levels it is available to you. A synthesist has HPs to spare. So, if you are going to change your mind, a skill point is probably best. Those are in short supply for you.
Most people don't like to multi-class. But, if and only if you are interested, a single level dip in cleric would be good. It would require shifting around the stats a little bit. But having a daily battery of 8d6 healing in channels along with a few CLW spells will go along way in keeping a party healthy. Three of Cortessa's domains look good and fit well with the choices you have already made.
Emily has her first APPROVAL of two. Any non-judge can do the other one.
elecgraystone
First Post
To Satin Knight.
Claws and Merged form: Yeah, I know it's all wonky. I was just pointing out how the wiki read to me. I'm fine with a ruling that I can't combine them. My main issue was the difference between what I understood the wiki said and what you said. I still think it'd be a good idea to re-write that part or add a side bar explaining it.
The wings and claws: I wasn't trying to negate a pent. but trying to match a description to a picture. (I've had her image for a while and I've wanted to play her). I expected NO benefit from that and just thought of it as a cool visual effect.
Darts: I only had the darts in the off chance I fought flying foes or couldn't get in range. As a synthysist I planned to attack as a physical fighter and ONLY use summon and spells to heal temp hp or as backup till I could summon merged form. If stuck out of merged form I'd just keep summonong since that's the only time I'd EVER use that power. By that point the crap would have really hit the fan and I don't think any weapon I had would make a diffrence. PS: non-lethal on a d4-2? I thought it went to a minimum 1.
Cart: The cart was for merged form only to take equipment from home to a campsite or base camp. I really planned on staying in merged form all the time except when sleeping. I'd planned her to be the 'boy scout always perpared' character that had anything you needed on the way to the adventure. PS: the cart weighed 200? I didn't see that and I didn't think it mattered. I was going off 1/2 the smallest wagon (2 animals pull and it carries 1000lb so I figured a cart would carry 1/2 or 500). If that's wrong then my bad.
Shield chain: I loathe spending money on temp items. It rubs me the wrong way, so if I can figure out a way to make it work with real permenent items I'll do it even if the end result is inferior. Call it a personal quirk. I'm the kind of person that ends up having the same healing potion on my sheet after 10 levels because I don't want to use it.
Emily: Yes, she was cool but I took a concept and a picture and made a character. I didn't see a low cha and a character that was going to melee if given the chance and wasn't going to cast spell that needed stats ever as a bad thing. IMO she looked fine as the natural weapon 'fighter' I planned to play her as. The merged form was her fighting form and her humanoid was what you get when she was beat.
Systole: I can say I honestly don't have a clue what issue he had with me. This is my first time playing pathfinder and I'm doing it with people I haven't met before. I have no idea what is ok or not in this 'group' and don't have a clue on everyones playstyles. I just stated how I read it, posted how I came to that conclusion and then said I was OK with changing it if you still disagreed. I don't know what else I could have done. I'll just say that if an issue comes up in the future, it's not going to be from me doing anything that I'm aware will rub people the wrong way. If people take offence to something I couldn't possibly know irks them... Well, I have to say I'm not going to feel bad about it.
Advice: Thanks. That lets me know that synthesist isn't ever going to be a character I'll play here. With this type of character I'd expect to be merged the vast majority of the time, with the unusual times I'm not as a challenge to overcome. I wouldn't enjoy playing a character where I could get to use my signature move for several encounters of an adventure.
Rose: The way I had expected to play her, she'd have been a fine character. Now that I know your advice, synthesist is out. I'm fine with a character as long as it's not suboptimal and I say tiefling as not optimal but not suboptimal (as I expected to stay in merged form). PS: As I said I started out with a character idea and a picture. The pic had wings and a tail so I added a tail and some wings. I also thought that they'd still works since they weren't limbs (as I'd said in my last post, I thought it meant to use a limb you have to have that limb but lesser thing still worked), though I'd have still picked them even if I knew it wouldn't work.
Now a question. Can I leave rose's page, remove the tag and come back to her when I can make up a second character? I may just make up her sister lilly for now and leave rose for a bit until I can think of something to do with her. Again thanks for the help and sorry this was as much of a hastle as it was.
Claws and Merged form: Yeah, I know it's all wonky. I was just pointing out how the wiki read to me. I'm fine with a ruling that I can't combine them. My main issue was the difference between what I understood the wiki said and what you said. I still think it'd be a good idea to re-write that part or add a side bar explaining it.
The wings and claws: I wasn't trying to negate a pent. but trying to match a description to a picture. (I've had her image for a while and I've wanted to play her). I expected NO benefit from that and just thought of it as a cool visual effect.
Darts: I only had the darts in the off chance I fought flying foes or couldn't get in range. As a synthysist I planned to attack as a physical fighter and ONLY use summon and spells to heal temp hp or as backup till I could summon merged form. If stuck out of merged form I'd just keep summonong since that's the only time I'd EVER use that power. By that point the crap would have really hit the fan and I don't think any weapon I had would make a diffrence. PS: non-lethal on a d4-2? I thought it went to a minimum 1.
Cart: The cart was for merged form only to take equipment from home to a campsite or base camp. I really planned on staying in merged form all the time except when sleeping. I'd planned her to be the 'boy scout always perpared' character that had anything you needed on the way to the adventure. PS: the cart weighed 200? I didn't see that and I didn't think it mattered. I was going off 1/2 the smallest wagon (2 animals pull and it carries 1000lb so I figured a cart would carry 1/2 or 500). If that's wrong then my bad.
Shield chain: I loathe spending money on temp items. It rubs me the wrong way, so if I can figure out a way to make it work with real permenent items I'll do it even if the end result is inferior. Call it a personal quirk. I'm the kind of person that ends up having the same healing potion on my sheet after 10 levels because I don't want to use it.
Emily: Yes, she was cool but I took a concept and a picture and made a character. I didn't see a low cha and a character that was going to melee if given the chance and wasn't going to cast spell that needed stats ever as a bad thing. IMO she looked fine as the natural weapon 'fighter' I planned to play her as. The merged form was her fighting form and her humanoid was what you get when she was beat.
Systole: I can say I honestly don't have a clue what issue he had with me. This is my first time playing pathfinder and I'm doing it with people I haven't met before. I have no idea what is ok or not in this 'group' and don't have a clue on everyones playstyles. I just stated how I read it, posted how I came to that conclusion and then said I was OK with changing it if you still disagreed. I don't know what else I could have done. I'll just say that if an issue comes up in the future, it's not going to be from me doing anything that I'm aware will rub people the wrong way. If people take offence to something I couldn't possibly know irks them... Well, I have to say I'm not going to feel bad about it.
Advice: Thanks. That lets me know that synthesist isn't ever going to be a character I'll play here. With this type of character I'd expect to be merged the vast majority of the time, with the unusual times I'm not as a challenge to overcome. I wouldn't enjoy playing a character where I could get to use my signature move for several encounters of an adventure.
Rose: The way I had expected to play her, she'd have been a fine character. Now that I know your advice, synthesist is out. I'm fine with a character as long as it's not suboptimal and I say tiefling as not optimal but not suboptimal (as I expected to stay in merged form). PS: As I said I started out with a character idea and a picture. The pic had wings and a tail so I added a tail and some wings. I also thought that they'd still works since they weren't limbs (as I'd said in my last post, I thought it meant to use a limb you have to have that limb but lesser thing still worked), though I'd have still picked them even if I knew it wouldn't work.
Now a question. Can I leave rose's page, remove the tag and come back to her when I can make up a second character? I may just make up her sister lilly for now and leave rose for a bit until I can think of something to do with her. Again thanks for the help and sorry this was as much of a hastle as it was.
elecgraystone
First Post
On the DR1/evil I'm pretty sure it have to have the evil subtype and not just an evil alignment. So no to kobold and yes to cacodemon [NE Tiny outsider (daemon, evil, extraplanar)]. I don't know if A: that works that way here and B: that'll alter your approval but I figured I'd say it in case it did.
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OperationMaximumBear
First Post
Satin Knights, thanks for your long and thoughtful replies. I'd done the player/GM density math too. That's why I spoke up; I wanted to know how typical that exchange was. Based on your comments I'm content to let it lie.
Thanks too for your review and your advice. I'll have a look at the alternative cantrips; her backstory can be a reference to the Aasimar's daylight SLA. Or maybe I'll just take acid splash, so I don't have to lug around a crossbow. On that subject, I'll look around for some cheap things to buy; I know I have plenty of money left, but I'm almost out of encumbrance :/ Still, with 100% buyback there's no reason not to pick up a few antitoxins or whatever.
As for Mother's damage reduction, it's far more powerful than you realize. Weapon attacks only ignore DR/evil if they are explicitly evil-aligned (e.g. unholy) or have a +5 or better enhancement bonus. Natural attacks only pierce DR/evil if the creature making them has an alignment subtype (so Kobolds no, most evil outsiders yes). I thought that there was also an exception for natural attacks by creatures with DR/evil, but now that I look more closely I think I'm wrong.
Basically, DR 1/evil is only very slightly worse than DR 1/-. On the other hand, it's still just DR 1, and her AC is only 15. I predict that, after her first adventure, Emily will devote herself to figuring out a protective spell or two.
Thanks too for your review and your advice. I'll have a look at the alternative cantrips; her backstory can be a reference to the Aasimar's daylight SLA. Or maybe I'll just take acid splash, so I don't have to lug around a crossbow. On that subject, I'll look around for some cheap things to buy; I know I have plenty of money left, but I'm almost out of encumbrance :/ Still, with 100% buyback there's no reason not to pick up a few antitoxins or whatever.
As for Mother's damage reduction, it's far more powerful than you realize. Weapon attacks only ignore DR/evil if they are explicitly evil-aligned (e.g. unholy) or have a +5 or better enhancement bonus. Natural attacks only pierce DR/evil if the creature making them has an alignment subtype (so Kobolds no, most evil outsiders yes). I thought that there was also an exception for natural attacks by creatures with DR/evil, but now that I look more closely I think I'm wrong.
Basically, DR 1/evil is only very slightly worse than DR 1/-. On the other hand, it's still just DR 1, and her AC is only 15. I predict that, after her first adventure, Emily will devote herself to figuring out a protective spell or two.
Last edited:
elecgraystone
First Post
Yeah, I looked up DR again. The place to look is the alignment subtypes themselves. They explain that they give their weapons alignment there.
To OperationMaximumBear, I'd agree with an acid splash (or the electric one from the new cantrips). When I'm a caster, I'd rather cast spells then pull out a weapon and ranged touch will help out on hitting.
A weapon with a long range might be helpful, but IMO the sling is perfect for this. The weapon isn't weighing you down and you can wrap it anywhere. No matter how you sling it, a crossbow is clunky IMO. Plus you can find ammo almost anywhere, (no rocks?). Fall off a cliff, in a hole or washed overboard, a sling tied to you arm should be there undamaged and ammo will able to be scrounged but a crossbow is a lot more iffy.
For melee, I'd say look at the long spear for reach and two handed damage. A boar spear loses reach but gives a shield bonus when you brace it so it too is a good option.
To OperationMaximumBear, I'd agree with an acid splash (or the electric one from the new cantrips). When I'm a caster, I'd rather cast spells then pull out a weapon and ranged touch will help out on hitting.
A weapon with a long range might be helpful, but IMO the sling is perfect for this. The weapon isn't weighing you down and you can wrap it anywhere. No matter how you sling it, a crossbow is clunky IMO. Plus you can find ammo almost anywhere, (no rocks?). Fall off a cliff, in a hole or washed overboard, a sling tied to you arm should be there undamaged and ammo will able to be scrounged but a crossbow is a lot more iffy.
For melee, I'd say look at the long spear for reach and two handed damage. A boar spear loses reach but gives a shield bonus when you brace it so it too is a good option.
Satin Knights
First Post
About Rose:
Non-lethal: Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage. Core Rule Book p.179
Editing the wiki: Yeah, I can slip that into my todo list, but that list is kind of long.
Cart: Core Rule Book in the equipment table on page 159. That gave the weight of the cart as 200. Then you add your items. Then, 5 x max load is what you can push or drag. So, the 14 STR version can move the cart, but the 7 STR version of the character cannot move the same cart.
I Planned...: Ah. Plan for failures. If your eidolon is reduced to 0 HPs, it is 'killed' and gone for 24 hours. You wouldn't ask the party to just sit in the middle of a dangerous dungeon and wait until your timer expired and you could get her back. A wizard carries a crossbow to use after he has spent his three spells for the day. You should have the equivalent plan. Even walking the road to a different town, sometimes a day's delay is not possible by the storyline. When you cast your SLA Summon Monsters spells, only one of them can be active at a time. So, if the summoned creature lives for four rounds, you have three rounds that you need to be doing something else to contribute to the fight. Standing around in the middle of a fight without a useful weapon is only going to get you and your party killed. A spear you can take an AoO with, trip, aid another, attack, etc. A dart is a weapon that has a 50/50 chance of doing real damage for her. And, after 40', her attack bonus is so low, it wouldn't hit anyways. There is just no chance of slowing down a barbarian that is within charging distance with a dart.
Shield chain: Yeah, but it was a bad design that was stretching rules past their limits. And for the same cost in expendables, you could get an extra 6 AC to be untouchable on anything other than a nat20. To top that off, without the shield OR the expendables, you are still going to have a higher AC than any other party member to begin with at first level. A starting fighter in a chain shirt is going to top out at AC 16 if he invested in DEX. If the GM has to specifically design an encounter to hit the one "untouchable AC" in the party, without killing off the rest of the party with ease, it makes it a lot harder to design encounters. Bad design + inferior results + unnecessary = trifecta of annoyance.
The stats were another place of annoyance because it was so blatantly unoptimized. Spending 17 build points in a stat where the race has a penalty? Um, you want to melee mostly and don't care about the spell casting. So, spending 10 points gives you a 14 after the penalty. Then, you buy a headband of +2 CHA for 4,000 sometime before you reach 7th level. My first summoner only spent 1 build point in charisma. He is 8th level and doing fine.
You don't have to be anywhere near optimal. But don't stack so many bad choices together. If others are going to look at your character and it is the proverbial "last one to be picked for dodgeball", a warning bell should be going off in your head.
Keep Rose on the Wiki? Yes. We don't delete characters, even the half finished ones. Just change her category to "In Progress/Character" instead of "Awaiting Approval" so she goes on the back burner and the reviewers don't spend time on her with the approval process.
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Emily:
a) Okay, yes, DR 1/Evil is better than I thought. I couldn't find a reference before.
b) I see you spent some money. I suggest going with one Cure Light Wounds potion and one antitoxin instead. You will likely need the CLW before the antitoxin.
c) Daze? No. Just no. It gives you a 60% chance to simply delay only humanoids that are under 4 HD. And you can't repeat the trick in the same fight. It might fit for a total pacifist character, but in general, it is a bad choice. The only worse cantrip is Flare. Please go pick another.
d) A sling is good except when you have a STR penalty. The d4-2 is going to be 1 point of non-lethal 1/2 the time, 1 or 2 points of damage the other half. That isn't even going to slow down a charging wizard with a dagger in his hand. The crossbow has a chance to do real damage while ignoring STR penalties.
e) Spear or longspear are good choices.
Non-lethal: Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage. Core Rule Book p.179
Editing the wiki: Yeah, I can slip that into my todo list, but that list is kind of long.
Cart: Core Rule Book in the equipment table on page 159. That gave the weight of the cart as 200. Then you add your items. Then, 5 x max load is what you can push or drag. So, the 14 STR version can move the cart, but the 7 STR version of the character cannot move the same cart.
I Planned...: Ah. Plan for failures. If your eidolon is reduced to 0 HPs, it is 'killed' and gone for 24 hours. You wouldn't ask the party to just sit in the middle of a dangerous dungeon and wait until your timer expired and you could get her back. A wizard carries a crossbow to use after he has spent his three spells for the day. You should have the equivalent plan. Even walking the road to a different town, sometimes a day's delay is not possible by the storyline. When you cast your SLA Summon Monsters spells, only one of them can be active at a time. So, if the summoned creature lives for four rounds, you have three rounds that you need to be doing something else to contribute to the fight. Standing around in the middle of a fight without a useful weapon is only going to get you and your party killed. A spear you can take an AoO with, trip, aid another, attack, etc. A dart is a weapon that has a 50/50 chance of doing real damage for her. And, after 40', her attack bonus is so low, it wouldn't hit anyways. There is just no chance of slowing down a barbarian that is within charging distance with a dart.
Shield chain: Yeah, but it was a bad design that was stretching rules past their limits. And for the same cost in expendables, you could get an extra 6 AC to be untouchable on anything other than a nat20. To top that off, without the shield OR the expendables, you are still going to have a higher AC than any other party member to begin with at first level. A starting fighter in a chain shirt is going to top out at AC 16 if he invested in DEX. If the GM has to specifically design an encounter to hit the one "untouchable AC" in the party, without killing off the rest of the party with ease, it makes it a lot harder to design encounters. Bad design + inferior results + unnecessary = trifecta of annoyance.
The stats were another place of annoyance because it was so blatantly unoptimized. Spending 17 build points in a stat where the race has a penalty? Um, you want to melee mostly and don't care about the spell casting. So, spending 10 points gives you a 14 after the penalty. Then, you buy a headband of +2 CHA for 4,000 sometime before you reach 7th level. My first summoner only spent 1 build point in charisma. He is 8th level and doing fine.
You don't have to be anywhere near optimal. But don't stack so many bad choices together. If others are going to look at your character and it is the proverbial "last one to be picked for dodgeball", a warning bell should be going off in your head.
Keep Rose on the Wiki? Yes. We don't delete characters, even the half finished ones. Just change her category to "In Progress/Character" instead of "Awaiting Approval" so she goes on the back burner and the reviewers don't spend time on her with the approval process.
--------------------------------
Emily:
a) Okay, yes, DR 1/Evil is better than I thought. I couldn't find a reference before.
b) I see you spent some money. I suggest going with one Cure Light Wounds potion and one antitoxin instead. You will likely need the CLW before the antitoxin.
c) Daze? No. Just no. It gives you a 60% chance to simply delay only humanoids that are under 4 HD. And you can't repeat the trick in the same fight. It might fit for a total pacifist character, but in general, it is a bad choice. The only worse cantrip is Flare. Please go pick another.
d) A sling is good except when you have a STR penalty. The d4-2 is going to be 1 point of non-lethal 1/2 the time, 1 or 2 points of damage the other half. That isn't even going to slow down a charging wizard with a dagger in his hand. The crossbow has a chance to do real damage while ignoring STR penalties.
e) Spear or longspear are good choices.
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