Charged per day magic item creation

[Elvinis75]

I don't understand the charges per day magic item creation price adjustment. The SRD says “Divide by (5 charges per day)”. What if the item has 2,3,4,6,7,8, or 9 charges?

Can someone show me how this works with a ring of bull strength with the above listed charges per in an example(s)? Please.

 

[AuraSeer]

If the item has fewer than 5 uses per day, multiply the cost by the number of uses, then divide by 5. For instance, an item with 4 charges per day is four-fifths (4/5) as expensive as an unlimited one.

If the item has 5 or more charges, the price does not get reduced because that's not a significant limitation.

However, note that those prices are only guidelines. The DM must evaluate each new item to see whether it's balanced compared to existing items. Your "ring of bull's strength", for example, seems like an attempt to increase Strength too cheaply. For any item that grants an enhancement bonus to Strength, you should price it like a belt of strength (1,000 gp * bonus squared), if not higher.

 

[Elvinis75]

If the item has fewer than 5 uses per day, multiply the cost by the number of uses, then divide by 5. For instance, an item with 4 charges per day is four-fifths (4/5) as expensive as an unlimited one.

If the item has 5 or more charges, the price does not get reduced because that's not a significant limitation.

However, note that those prices are only guidelines. The DM must evaluate each new item to see whether it's balanced compared to existing items. Your "ring of bull's strength", for example, seems like an attempt to increase Strength too cheaply. For any item that grants an enhancement bonus to Strength, you should price it like a belt of strength (1,000 gp * bonus squared), if not higher.

Ok lets see if it really is cheaper.
9K for a belt +3
16K for a belt +4

Most magic items are considered cast by the lowest possible level.

2 * 3 * 1800 = 10800 for 15 hours
2 * 3 * 1800 * 6/5 = 12960 for 18 hours
2 * 3 * 1800 * 8/5 = 17280 for 24 hours

That gives the possibility for a ring that is activated 8 times a day to always be in affect like the belt. The draw backs outweight the pluses.
The ring requires:
Activation
Yields a lesser effect than the +4 belt half of the time. (+2 or +3 if a 1 or 2 is rolled)
Yields a greater effect than +3 belt half of the time at nearly twice the price.

I think that it is a niche item. Combat or task related. At 2 or 3 charged per day it works for combat but still needs to be activated. It makes a nice lesser item. Not as good as the belts but still adds a little favor.

 

[AuraSeer]

Don't bother multiplying by 6/5 or 8/5. As I said above, an item with more than 5 daily charges isn't modified in this way, because that's not a real limitation. Since a 6/day or 8/day item would cost the same as an unlimited item, no one would ever create one; they'd just make the unlimited one instead.

Be aware that activation is not a drawback for spells with long duration. The wearer could activate the ring in the morning, and reactivate each time it expired. He wouldn't need to spend an action in combat, so for game purposes, it's effectively a continuous benefit.

Note also that for someone with an odd Strength score, this item could give more benefit than the +4 item. On a high roll, the extra point is enough to push the wearer's bonus up by one more bracket. (E.g., someone with Str 15 could have his Strength increased to 20, increasing his Str bonus by 3.)

 

[Elvinis75]

Don't bother multiplying by 6/5 or 8/5. As I said above, an item with more than 5 daily charges isn't modified in this way, because that's not a real limitation. Since a 6/day or 8/day item would cost the same as an unlimited item, no one would ever create one; they'd just make the unlimited one instead.

Be aware that activation is not a drawback for spells with long duration. The wearer could activate the ring in the morning, and reactivate each time it expired. He wouldn't need to spend an action in combat, so for game purposes, it's effectively a continuous benefit.

Note also that for someone with an odd Strength score, this item could give more benefit than the +4 item. On a high roll, the extra point is enough to push the wearer's bonus up by one more bracket. (E.g., someone with Str 15 could have his Strength increased to 20, increasing his Str bonus by 3.)

I guess for some powers it wouldn't make sense to have a power that is activated more than 5 times a day but in this case it does make sense to get to the point of having it active for 24 hours. It wasn't the idea of the item just an example to use to show that it doesn't really save them any money when compared to the always active belt. The belt is cheaper and more effective as a means to have strength boost always ready and usually higher bonus.

Activation is a drawback. Unless you know that you are going to fight at this time and safe at that time. This is simply not the case the majority of the time. A ring with 4 activations lasts 12 hours if used one after another. That is only half of the day. If he takes your suggested course of action he will be SOL during the night. Not smart usage IMHO. You are correct that this does give the user a chance to exel and receive the +5 to strength and possibly +3 to hit and damage but it also could have the exact opposite roll and only provide the benefit of +2 to strength or +1 hit and damage. The random nature is both a plus and a minus.
Again IMHO.

 

[Quidam]

Minor hijack here...

What if you've got an item that has more than one ability, each ability draining a certain number of charges, with a certain number of charges renewing each day? Haven't seen an item like it and wonder what a good estimation would be. Here's an example of what I mean:

Keeper's Key

Knock: 1 charge
Dimension Door: 3 charges

Total charge capacity: 10 charges
Daily recharge rate: 2 charges


pardon the ubershorthand item description, but it's just to clarify my intent...

 

[AuraSeer]

I guess for some powers it wouldn't make sense to have a power that is activated more than 5 times a day[...]

You're missing the point.
Once the item has 5 or more charges per day, adding more charges does not increase the price. An item usable 5/day is the same price as one usable an infinite number of times per day.

It has nothing to do with whether it's useful for the item to work more than 5 times per day. The point is that once you hit 5 charges, you can get up to infinite charges, for exactly the same price.

If the 5-charge item is 10,800 gp, the 8-charge version is also 10,800 gp (not 17,280).

Activation is a drawback. Unless you know that you are going to fight at this time and safe at that time.

Bullpucky. You specifically designed the item to have a total duration of 24 hours. Unless you're on a planet with more than 24 hours in a day, the effect is continually in operation.

The only time activation would be a drawback for this item is if your enemies knew exactly when the effect would expire, and attacked you at that precise moment. Then, there might be one or two combat rounds in which you didn't gain the benefit. Other than that, it's the same as a continuous effect.

 

[AuraSeer]

What if you've got an item that has more than one ability, each ability draining a certain number of charges, with a certain number of charges renewing each day? Haven't seen an item like it[...]

You might take a look at the rod of flame extinguishing. It has 10 charges per day, and uses 1-3 at a time, depending on the size of the fire against which it's used.

 

[Elvinis75]

I guess this is why I asked the question. The SRD doesn’t directly say that the more than 5 is the same amount. At least I didn’t find it there. Still looking it as a less 5 charges item it still has a value that doesn't break the always on item and that follows the rules for charged spell effects. The ring with charges per day < 5 isn’t the same thing as the belt. Forget the charges. If you want the ring to function 24/7 the caster level * charges must = 24 that says that he has to make it at 4 charges the caster level is 6. 6 * 2 * 1800 * 4/5 = 17280. At 3 charges the mage level needs to be 8th (8 * 2 * 1800 * 3/5 = 17280). At 2 charges the mage has to be 12th level (12 * 2 * 1800 * 2/5 = 17280). So it doesn’t matter how many charges that the ring has to use to get to the always on. You can create the ring using the always on looking at the charges. Am I crazy?
E.g. if they are going to create a toga of strength +5 it would 25000 because the items that are always on are calculated using the top table section. You are told to use this because it creates an ongoing effect rather than a spell effect. Charges use a spell effect rules run as if the spell was being cast. It isn’t ongoing. It has a duration. Thus I have to say that even if a person creates a charged ring that lasts all day at the least price that I can think of @ 17280. It still doesn’t have an effect that is as good as the +4 belt at 16K.
Again by the rules I don’t think that you can make a spell like bull strength as an continous spell effect item. The rules for making that item are covered under the effects part of the table. Bonus^2 * 1000. The spell can by the rules be made as a daily charged item. Making it with charges and caster level high enough to last all day still sees it as an inferior item. @ 17280 it costs more than the +4 belt and 50% of the time it has an inferior bonus. Thus making one that is cheaper that doesn’t last all day makes it more of a valuable magic item.
Here are the two questions to ask yourself:
Would you rather have a
+4 belt of strength, always on, always +4
or
+2 - +5 ring that varies in power level throughout the day as costs 1280 more
Option one is the clear answer to me.
Now if it lasts half the day. It has possibilities. 2 * 3 * 1800 * 4/5 = 8640gp
Less money than the belt +3 and much less than the +4.
Usually it is better than the the +3 but its draw back is that it isn’t always on and might cost them an action to activate it.
Is this clear or are we still on a different thought line?

 

[kreynolds]

Is this clear...

Nope. I tried though.