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Charm Person

calypso15

Explorer
Iku Rex said:
As calypso15 points out, the intent is obviously not that all targets of charm spells get the bonus. My conclusion is that the target gets the bonus if it's aware of the attack or is threatened by the caster. To me that's as close to the RAW as you get and it makes sense conceptually. (Want someone to be your friend? Don't freak him out with aggressive or threatening behavior.)

Aware of the attack? So are we back to the "casting Charm Person is an attack, so everyone gets the +5 bonus" again?

Side question (for anyone): Do you call for initiative rolls when a PC or NPC starts casting a spell at someone? And if you don't "count" a charm spell as an attack for the purpose of the bonus, is a suspicious PC or NPC still not "under attack" as it dives for cover in fear for its life after winning initiative?

Depends on the situation. If it's a tense situation, then yes, I call for initiative. If not, then no. I would allow a PC to cast Charm Person on someone in a bar without them getting a +5 bonus. If they make the save, THEN it might lead to a fight.

Calypso
 

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Infiniti2000

First Post
Iku Rex said:
Side question (for anyone): Do you call for initiative rolls when a PC or NPC starts casting a spell at someone? And if you don't "count" a charm spell as an attack for the purpose of the bonus, is a suspicious PC or NPC still not "under attack" as it dives for cover in fear for its life after winning initiative?
My answer to this is that I do not allow 'spontaneous' casting of spells like that. The first person to yell out "I cast . . ." does not get to be the lone entrant in a surprise round or automatically gain initiative. Now, don't get me wrong. You can legitmately surprise someone by casting a spell, but you need to actually surprise them. I don't like the idea of rolling initiative on an encounter unless there's gonna be a battle. I tend to take the Champions idea of free soapbox-standing at the beginning of any encounter. It certainly gives a lot of chances for extra RP, too.
 

Vegepygmy

First Post
Iku Rex said:
Side question (for anyone): Do you call for initiative rolls when a PC or NPC starts casting a spell at someone? And if you don't "count" a charm spell as an attack for the purpose of the bonus, is a suspicious PC or NPC still not "under attack" as it dives for cover in fear for its life after winning initiative?
I call for initiative as soon as anyone (PC or NPC) declares their intent to attack. Casting charm person is an attack. It is not, however, a "current" attack. So if the spell is cast before the caster or his allies threaten or attack the target, no +5 bonus.

"Suspicion" is not enough in my book. Actual, overt threat is required.
 

wakedown

Explorer
Awesome to see all the replies in this thread... My original question was less about the saving throw bonus - Skip's response there is pretty good as a guideline IMO.

After reading these replies and thinking on the matter, I'm curious how Charm Person scenes have played out for folks, more on the RP side.

You are in a dungeon and come across a room of orcs. Before combat begins, you throw up your hand and say "wait a second, I wish to speak with you". You then cast Charm Person. The orcs obviously see you casting a spell, let's say one becomes charmed. He suddenly believes you two are good friends. Do you actually say "Mogrosh, my good friend how have you been these years?" and he will believe you have a long standing friendship? This seems like it would need a Bluff check. Or, does Mogrosh just feel you are a special trustworthy human and try to convince the other orcs to give you a chance to speak, while smiling at you?

You are in a barracks and your commanding officer is a real jerk. He has always had it out for you and gives you some crap job to perform today. You cast Charm Person... perhaps prior to doing this, you Bluff and say that you are going to cast Light or Mage Hand or another random spell. He has no Spellcraft ranks, but is suspicious why you would be casting a spell. You successfully Charm him. Is he more apt to believe that the previous spell was Light when no Light effect came to being, and he is suddenly thinking that you two are best friends, even though in his memories he knows for the past year he has made your life a living hell?

You are bartering with a merchant in a town where spells like Charm are forbidden. You are frustrated at his high prices and tell him you want to cast Detect Magic or Identify (Bluff again) on the item. You instead cast Charm and pretend that you are inspecting the item (Bluff again). You finally look up and say "Hey are you sure I can't get this at cost?". The merchant agrees and you make off with the item. Later the spell expires - does the merchant look back and wonder what the hell he was doing? Is he suspicious enough to wonder if you cast Charm at him? Maybe he gets a Wisdom check to ask around and see what others think about his strange behavior? The way I've played this, is if the player bumps into the merchant later, he just shakes his head and says "lad, you got the best deal I've given this year, I ain't sure how ya did it..."

Any other scenarios would be welcome. Handling the Psionic Charm is much easier since there aren't verbal and somatic components, just the manifesting effect (maybe a chime sound or wind, etc). However, with the spell, assuming you aren't doing Silent/Still, it seems like folks would be more suspicious of their sudden friendship with you, and that using Bluff would be necessary to redirect that suspicion. Obviously charming someone alone is better, since others can't nudge them along by talking about the fact that you DID just cast a spell.
 


calypso15

Explorer
Goldmoon said:
What if the somatic portion of the spell is you saying "Hey Bob, why don't we just bury the hatchet and be friends"?

Heh. Doesn't quite work like that. First of all, I think you meant Verbal, rather than Somatic, yeah? And: "A verbal component is a spoken incantation."

Calypso
 

Goldmoon

First Post
calypso15 said:
Heh. Doesn't quite work like that. First of all, I think you meant Verbal, rather than Somatic, yeah? And: "A verbal component is a spoken incantation."

Calypso

My mistake, I meant verbal. But where does it say the spoken incantation cant be "Lets be friends"?
 

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