cheesy things to do with 2wf

[Alzrius]

One question that it brings up is "what order do your attacks happen?", which I don't thik is defined. Because the 2-hands on the longsword trick only works before drawing the short sword.

It is defined, though somewhat arbitrarily (IMHO). Page 143 of the PHB says "If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the atacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first."

So in this case, either attack can go first. I'd personally say that when you have multiple attacks from any sources, you must always go highest total attack bonus to lowest.

 

[Alzrius]

I think he's talking about just dropping the long sword, that's a free action by RAW.

He's not.

Said fighter starts his turn threatening an enemy. He quickdraws the longsword, wields it two handed, and declares he´s going to use two weapon fighting this round. IMO, perfectly legal: he could use an narmed attack as his secondary strike.

After he makes his attack with the longsword, he releases his grip with his off hand, (free action), quickdraws his shortsword (free action) and then makes the off hand attack.

Emphasis mine.

 

[Shellman]

This is my take on it,

First of all TWF is exactly that, you are fighting with two weapons. If you are not weilding a double weapon or two weapons (at the same time), then you are not two weapon fighting.

Second from the example given in the first post, I don't think the fighter can technically threaten with an unarmed strike unless he has the unarmed strike feat. So if he is weilding a shortsword in one hand and tries to use an unarmed strike as his off hand attack, he is not two weapon fighting unless he has the unarmed strike feat.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I would rule that the character would have to declare his intention & have immediate ability to 2wf at the beginning of the round (done by default) & play it from there. If an attack is taken without the -2 2wf penalty or with a str*1.5 bonus to damage that tells me that the character has violated both preconditions & may not use the 2wf full attack option.

Any 'legalise' rationale will be considered an attempt to violate the sanctity of a fighting style (2handed in this case) & like the animated shield will be auto-banned.

 

[Sil]

What is the problem we are trying to solve. The player is working rather hard to get a +1.5*str bonus instead of a +.5*str on the first attack only. How is that a problem?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Indeed, by the RAW, he has to declare his intention to use TWF by taking the -2 to the initial attack.

I would rule that the character would have to declare his intention & have immediate ability to 2wf at the beginning of the round (done by default) & play it from there. If an attack is taken without the -2 2wf penalty or with a str*1.5 bonus to damage that tells me that the character has violated both preconditions & may not use the 2wf full attack option.

 

[Cheiromancer]

A character using TWF does not get 1.5 times the strength bonus. Conversely, if he is wielding a weapon two-handed he is not using TWF.

As Elder Basilisk notes, the way to decide what he is doing is to see if he takes a -2 penalty on his first attack. If the penalty is there, calculate the damage bonus according to the rules for TWF. If not, don't allow the attack with the short sword.

 

[Sledge]

actually if he wants to use the loophole that he "could" use an unarmed attack as his off hand attack, then that is what he has declared to attack with... drawing a sword in his off hand doesn't change his attack declaration.

 

[silentspace]

seems fine to me

 

[Someone]

A character using TWF does not get 1.5 times the strength bonus. Conversely, if he is wielding a weapon two-handed he is not using TWF.

Where does it say it? The rules says

a)That you must wield a weapon in two hands to get the 1,5*str bonus. The fighter in the example certainly does. In fact, the only remotely official ruling on this is the rules FAQ, that allows two weapon fighting with a two handed weapon and armor spikes.

b)You must wield a weapon in your off hand to get the secondary attack. It doesn´t say you must wield it at the start of the round.

As Elder Basilisk notes, the way to decide what he is doing is to see if he takes a -2 penalty on his first attack. If the penalty is there, calculate the damage bonus according to the rules for TWF. If not, don't allow the attack with the short sword.

The point is, the rules about TWF say nothing about damage bonus, only the to hit penalties you get for fighting with two weapons. The strenght bonuses for light, one handed and two handed weapons are detailed earlier, and they don´t mention twf at all. So the trick remains perfectly legal by the RAW. The only slightly obscure part is allowing to release the grip on the longsword with your off hand as a free action, but seeing that you can release both hands of it as a free action (dropping the sword) I think that not allowing it would be incoherent.