Children PCs

[Fieari]

Well, actually, my goal wasn't really to mix adult and child PCs. I was hoping to run a campaign exclusivly with kid characters. Actually, I'm hoping to run it on this messageboard, so once I get the rules to my satisfaction, I'll be testing them on you guys. I'm pretty sure the story I have in mind will be interesting enough to keep you playing...

The purpose for making seperate children classes is to change the focus from gaining stats (+BAB, spellcasting, etc) to gaining skills... since that's what kids are learning anyway. In order to satisfy the "these are extraordinary kids" thing though, I'm definitely considering a number of feats. I don't think the current feats would apply though, esspecially since

A) I want combat to be terrifying,
B) and as such, there won't be a focus on it

Most feats are positively combat focused. I think kids could use a few negative combat feats... that is, feats to AVOID combat, to excape it. That sort of thing.

I do agree that when they grow up, they'll grow into their adult equivelent class. I'm also thinking that even before then, if they adventure enough to get enough experience, they can graduate into standard PC classes as well. This'd be the equivelent of "ascending" for normal PCs.

 

[Tonguez]

Well, actually, my goal wasn't really to mix adult and child PCs. I was hoping to run a campaign exclusivly with kid characters. Actually, I'm hoping to run it on this messageboard, so once I get the rules to my satisfaction, I'll be testing them on you guys. I'm pretty sure the story I have in mind will be interesting enough to keep you playing....

Hey I'll Play!


Anyway to the Classes

I was thinking that with the

Young Paladin you could perhaps give it abilities similar to 'Auras' of the Marshall Class (Minatures Handbook) and/or Bardic Music abilities (Concept: The Playground Monitor is everyones friend and people feel better, infact DO better when he's around)

Caring Child give Heal as a class ability and various abilities like 'Calm Emotions' and 'Sympathy' (the Caring Child can share your pain!)

Feats
I agree lots of Evasive feats is whats required, combat must be an absolute LAST resort. Nonetheless teamwork can be used to effect
I once created a PrC (*newver playtested) called the Poltroon (based partially on Rincewind from Discworld). Poltroons are cowards there class abilities (Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Increase Speed, Fast Talk, Contortionism and Random Props) are designed to help them avoid combat and hopefully get away as fast as possible. Anyway all these could be redeisgned as Feats

 

[Tonguez]

Well, actually, my goal wasn't really to mix adult and child PCs. I was hoping to run a campaign exclusivly with kid characters. Actually, I'm hoping to run it on this messageboard, so once I get the rules to my satisfaction, I'll be testing them on you guys. I'm pretty sure the story I have in mind will be interesting enough to keep you playing....

Hey I'll Play!


Anyway to the Classes

I was thinking that with the

Young Paladin you could perhaps give it abilities similar to 'Auras' of the Marshall Class (Minatures Handbook) and/or Bardic Music abilities (Concept: The Playground Monitor is everyones friend and people feel better, infact DO better when he's around)

Caring Child give Heal as a class ability and various abilities like 'Calm Emotions' and 'Sympathy' (the Caring Child can share your pain!)

Feats
I agree lots of Evasive feats is whats required, combat must be an absolute LAST resort. Nonetheless teamwork can be used to effect
I once created a PrC (*newver playtested) called the Poltroon (based partially on Rincewind from Discworld). Poltroons are cowards there class abilities (Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Increase Speed, Fast Talk, Contortionism and Random Props) are designed to help them avoid combat and hopefully get away as fast as possible. Anyway all these could be redeisgned as Feats

 

[Krieg]

Well, actually, my goal wasn't really to mix adult and child PCs. I was hoping to run a campaign exclusivly with kid characters.

In that case, have you taken a look at Grimm from FFG yet?

The characters are "modern" archetypes thrust into a fantsy/fairy tale world, but it is still worth looking at for ideas.

 

[Fieari]

Okay. I spent some time specifying skills each class can learn. Of course, standard rules apply... you have to spend 1 point for 1 rank in class skills, 1 point for 0.5 ranks in cross-class (non-prohibited) skills, and you can't spend points in prohibited skills.

By the time these kids reach level 1 (and all that entails), they will have more skills that the equivelent level 1 class, and might even have picked up a skill or two normally prohibited to that class. I think that's only fair, considering these kids are going to EARN that.


Bright (Wizard Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Forgery (Int), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha)
Prohibited Skills: Alchemy, Animal Empathy, Climb, Concentration, Heal, Open Lock, Read Lips, Profession, Tumble
Skill Points: 2 + int modifier, 1d2 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Wizard Level 1 at 1000xp.


Caring (Cleric Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Animal Empathy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (Any) (Int)
Prohibited Skills: Concentration, Decipher Script, Forgery, Intimidate, Open Lock, Read Lips, Pick Pocket, Profession, Scry, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 2 + int modifier, 1d2 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Cleric Level 1 at 1000xp.


Prankster (Rogue Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Move Silently (Dex)
Prohibited Skills: Alchemy, Animal Empathy, Concentration, Heal, Open Lock, Profession, Scry, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 4 + int modifier, 1d4 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Rogue Level 1 at 1000xp.

Exclusive Feat: Set Trap

Roughhouser (Fighter Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Jump (Str), Swim (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Tumble (Dex)
Prohibited Skills: Alchemy, Animal Empathy, Concentration, Decipher Script, Heal, Open Lock, Read Lips, Profession, Scry, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 3 + int modifier, 1d3 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Fighter Level 1 at 1000xp.

Simple Weapon Proficiency


Explorer (Ranger Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Swim (Str), Wilderness Lore (Wis)
Prohibited Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Decipher Script, Forgery, Heal, Profession, Read Lips, Scry, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 3 + int modifier, 1d3 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Ranger Level 1 at 1000xp

Simple Weapon Proficiency
Martial (Ranged Only) Weapon Proficiency


Young Paladin (Paladin Equivelent)
----------
Okay, I've had enough of this for right this moment... could someone fill this one in for me? Have roughly 5 class skills and roughly 10 prohibited, give or take one or two.


Here are a few feats I think'll be useful...


Aquire Prohibited Skill
----------------
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: This feat allows the character to place skill points into otherwise prohibited abilities.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, but only once per skill desired.

Faithful Pet
------------
Prequisite: Child, Animal Empathy (1 rank) or Handle Animal (2 ranks)
Benefit: The feat allows a child to have a tame, 1HD or smaller non-magical animal companion. This animal loves the child, and will attempt to protect him or her from harm if possible. The animal also understands simple comands which include "Come", "Heel", "Stay", "Sit", "Lay Down", "Go", and "Fetch". The child must make a successful check to get the animal to obey these commands. Combine ranks in Animal Empathy and Handle Animal for this check.

Improvise Trap
--------------
Prerequisite: Prankster Class
Benefit: This feat allows a child to set up simple traps from common materials.

Croud Manuevering
-----------------
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: This feat allows the character to move with his or her full movement speed, even through a heavy croud.

Enhanced Run
------------
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: This feat allows the character to move at twice their normal movement rate.


Now, I have three requests...
1) Would someone fill in the skills for Young Paladin/Playground Monitor for me (as requested above)? Yeah yeah, I'm lazy... but it's getting late at night and I'm tired.
2) How do you suggest I handle GIVING feats? These won't be the only ones, of course... just what came to me off the top of my head. I'm also looking for more feats that could work.
3) Can anyone think up some nice stats for a Monster Under the Bed (And Alternatively Behind the Dresser when Mother Dusts)?

 

[Tonguez]

Young Paladin (Paladin Equivelent)
----------
Class Skills: Diplomacy (Cha) , Intimidate (Cha), Concentration (Con), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int)
Prohibited Skills: Decipher Script, Disguise, Forgery, Move Silently, Open Lock, Read Lips, Pick Pocket, Scry, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 2 + int modifier, 1d2 + int modifier every 100xp thereafter
Becomes Paladin Level 1 at 1000xp.

 

[Erila of Sune]

Well, actually, my goal wasn't really to mix adult and child PCs. I was hoping to run a campaign exclusivly with kid characters. <Snip>

Well, that clears things up, definitely. But I still have to disagree.

The purpose for making seperate children classes is to change the focus from gaining stats (+BAB, spellcasting, etc) to gaining skills... since that's what kids are learning anyway.

Uhm, to my mind, a class has always represented a [/i]specific set of skills.[/i] BAB = Skill at hitting things. Saving throws representing the skill needed to minimize the impact of bad outside influences. It's true that special abilities fall outside of these parameters, but the principle applies there as well.

This is mostly a bias against altering things beyond recognition when simply setting things up a bit differently should be more than adeuqete.

In order to satisfy the "these are extraordinary kids" thing though, I'm definitely considering a number of feats. I don't think the current feats would apply though, esspecially since

A) I want combat to be terrifying,
B) and as such, there won't be a focus on it

Most feats are positively combat focused. I think kids could use a few negative combat feats... that is, feats to AVOID combat, to excape it. That sort of thing.

Make combat terrifying? Easy enough to do. The kids are first level regular classes? Make a guard patrol the equivalent of fifth level. The BBEG is a fifteenth level character. Emphasize the size and reach advantages the 'big adults' have over the characters. The system provides ways to make regular combat a hugely scary thing that will keep the PCs from really considering trying it.

I do agree that when they grow up, they'll grow into their adult equivelent class. I'm also thinking that even before then, if they adventure enough to get enough experience, they can graduate into standard PC classes as well. This'd be the equivelent of "ascending" for normal PCs.

You're saying "These kids will grow up to be first level characters in spite of the fact that they're already way ahead of what most adults accomplish in a lifetime" here. It's like saying "Well, you just have to pay 200,000 XP to advance to first level in a 'real class' and lose all the skill points and such you accumulated over the course of your career as a child. It sounds like much too big a hit to me, is all.

Someone else pointed out that there's a system for what you want to do already. Rather than re-invent the wheel, it might be worth looking into the work someone else has already done.

 

[Vlos]

First, this sounds like a cool idea. We are currently running a campaign with Epic characters, we just took a break and are running low level characters. I think it would be even cooler to run "kids".

For stat generation I would one of two things depending on how you generate your stats.

If you use a radom roll (dice) I like the idea of roll 4d6. Start with toons based on the lowest 3 die, and progress over age to the highest 3 die. (This assumes you play 4d6 drop the lowest).

If you use a point buy system, you can buy your points as a normal character and then take a percentage of that (as suggested) to get the values for your current character. (base would be 15/15).

Where these get skewed is with the long lived races like elf/dwarf. But similar methods could be used just a different percentages. 100/100 for an elf, etc.


Now the classes are a bit more complex. I am tossing around the idea of using the DMG classes (commoner/expert/etc) or taking the characters 1st level class and using a similar method as to generating stats. Divide the abilities by the age, then at each age they gain the new abilities.

A child would not gain exp, but just age.

A fighter type would have little in the way of skill points, but would gain a weapon almost every year, until they have all weapons listed under martial weapons, etc.

I would also have a minimum for gaining their first skill point. Be it somewhere around the age of 7-8. A 5 year old will not have any real skill.

This would lead into your first level where you don't lose anything.

Experience points are the knowledge one learns as they grow up. Thus when they reach adulthood (1st level) they have their knowledge of their childhood (ie. their starting skills).

A character doesn't get anything extra a first level character gets, so no adjustments needed.

Feats, like skills would be assigned at age levels. I would probably say somewhere around 10, or you could even postpone them till they actually get first level (if they are class based).

Just some random thoughts...

 

[Fieari]

Erilia... I get the feeling you're more or less opposed to the very concept, and I don't know how to answer that. I think we're on two VERY different wavelengths here. I'm not going to look at the book mentioned earlier, because quite frankly, I'm a college student with no money, but still alot of ideas for games. I'd rather work at my own rules for hours and try them out (for free) then spend money to gamble that the pre-made rules are worthwhile (I've had no confirmation on this from anyone).

I don't know how well purely skill based characters who are less powerful than the weakest normal PC will play out. I could always make these epic level kids, but that would go against the feel I'm going for right now. Apparently, there are others who agree with me...

I think I'm going to play test what I have so far. Things may have to change drastically in order to be fun, but I won't know until I try it. I'm willing to try it, and if others are willing to be my lab rats, then we can have fun trying it out.

I don't think I have nearly enough feats, but I'm going to ask my potential players to supply what they think would be cool feats when we play.

Anyway, I'll just say, for simplisity, that kids get 1 feat when they start, an additional feat after 400xp, and then another after 800xp, for a total of three possible feats before reaching level 1 (I still think this will work, but if not, well, these are house rules anyway and can be changed until they DO work)

Off to recruit players!

Recruiting Here