D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Maxperson]

Which is why a lot can be done to correct the imbalance. The real issue is the direction you want to go:

You either decrease the power of casters to bring them down to the martial level, or elevate the martials to bring them up to the casters. Or, try to find a happy medium between the two extremes...

Personally, I am for bringing casters down, many others want to elevate martials.

This is one of those things that really has no good answer. If you reduce the casters, magic ceases to feel wondrous and magical due to its weakness. If you elevate martials, they cease to be martial abilities, because anything a fighter can do that rivals high level wizard spells is going to be supernatural(magical).

 

[Cadence]

no not at all and I don't see a problem with merlin or gandalf being at the table with achilles

Is Gandalf high enough level to hang out with Achilles?

 

[Mort]

They have been doing it, but not for fighters (and rogues). Every other class has some sort of supernatural excuse for that stuff, but fighters and rogues don't. And that is always going to limit them, because a sizable contingent of players like it that way. If you want to play a fighter with supernatural abilities, use magic items, play a class that supports that narrative, or create your own.

Sure they have. I've already mentioned Fighters using superiority dice for skill checks like Persuasion etc. (It's in Tasha's).

 

[Scribe]

Let's say it's "you," you get into the magical world with it's magical world reality. You start at 1st level (or even 0 level) but you advance (or die trying) - wouldn't you pick up a few extra tricks, learn a few things you might not learn in the RL as you advance in level? Thinking of fighters in the RL is a bit of a crutch!

No, not in terms of being functionally or full invisible to infravision like your prior example. You would be a 'real' person, without magic, using what you can to get by and training specifically to hit harder/faster/better with a piece of metal.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't mind there being an "everyman" class, I am not even married to names. But if fighter is the everyman I want the legendary warrior.

This is were the lack of prestige classes hurts the game design IMO.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The fighter isn't just some "real dude." He grew up in a mythical world next to guys throwing fireballs and teleporting around.

This is also were preference and settings come into play. In my game, for example, many people would never even see a fireball being used, let alone have to deal with the individual casting it.

 

[Maxperson]

Book of 9 Swords, where they made good versions of the martial characters using the template for spells.

That was the first and only book that I ever banned in 3e. I had a harder time balancing encounters for a party of 2 Wardblades, 1 Swordsage and 1 Crusader than for a party of 4 tier 1 spellcasters. I loved the book up until that moment, then I realized just how OP it was.

 

[HammerMan]

This is were the lack of prestige classes hurts the game design IMO.

we could build a (insect sword sage warblade warlord or whatever) class from level 1 and put it next to fighter... make it more then fighter and no one can complain that it is better...so are all the casters.

 

[Mort]

No, not in terms of being functionally or full invisible to infravision like your prior example.

Why not, you just know what natural funguses etc. repel darkvision, or how to move properly to fool darkvision - it doesn't have to be magic at all.

You would be a 'real' person, without magic, using what you can to get by and training specifically to hit harder/faster/better with a piece of metal.

This is all combat stuff - and it's not the problem. Martials already hit harder/faster/better - they do plenty of damage and can take damage fine during combat. They even have cool stuff like action surge to truly turn things up.

The issue is out of combat exploration and social stuff. Is it really too much to let them have a few nonmagical tricks here?

 

[Oofta]

how are you getting 60ft? that would be base 20ft x3 and it is strmod+3 if you have a +17 str mod you are already doing weird things with a 44 str

From the basic rules:

Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump.​

​

On the other hand

High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier (minimum of 0 feet) if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump.​

​

I never said D&D was perfect, some things are oversimplified. That's why we have DMs. On the other hand being able to long jump 60 feet without the aid of magic would be silly to me.