D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Maxperson]

And sometimes even if they are resistant; that's what Elemental Adept is for.

You can't assume feats. Lots of games don't use them.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Fighters, on the other hand, are FAR from agreed upon. Some players want Joe Schmoe just trying to survive, some want Captain America/Black Widow and some want Gilgamesh/Achilles etc. Exactly what a fighter is has never quite solidified into a general consensus. And that makes designing for them REALLY hard.

Yeah, it is the hardest part. Which is surprising personally because you'd think one of the simplest classes would be easiest to define...

 

[Maxperson]

Sage Advice clarified that Readied action only provides 1 attack.

Where. The most recent Sage Advice says nothing about it that I can see. Are you talking about the old tweet? That isn't Sage Advice.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

According to that poll, there is a spike in the number of enworlders who want the level 20 Fighter to be "Black Panther / Captain America".

However, in my eyes, both them are roughly a level 10 Fighter, including the Strength 20.

The desired model is logically impossible for a game that goes beyond level 10 upto level 20, and even higher into epic levels.

I don’t quite agree. Whilst those characters are at the lower end of the superheroic, they still are clearly superheroes, capable of blatantly superhuman feats. I think the poll clearly shows that most people want high level fighters to be more than just normal people. And I think that’s encouraging.

 

[Yaarel]

I feel making powerful magic items part of the Fighter class features is the solution for high-level Fighters to keep up with spellcasting shenanigans. Even better, a Fighter subclass. So the players who want it can choose it. These magic items can include many warrior concepts, including superhero Thor with a magical hammer, He-Man with his sword, Captain America with his shield, Xena with her chakara disc, Perseus with his sword, shield, and winged sandles (and improperly his Renaissance Era Pegasus flying steed), Wonder Woman with her bracers and lasso, even the D&D cartoon Ranger with his energy bow at a low level, and so on. The subclass features grant and improve powerful gear. Part of the character concept is choosing what way the Fighter acquires this gear, whether making it oneself, gaining a patron, or so on.

This is, IMO, the biggest divide between casters and martials (especially fighters).

To some degree, any divide between martials and casters comes because of a self-inflicted wound. Some Fighter fans shoot themselves in the foot, by insisting on playing a mundane character, and refusing to play a fantasy character. (But most seem ok with magic as items. So there seems a solution.)

D&D Casters are largely a D&D creation. sure they have some basis in stories and myth - but, especially at this point, they're their own thing. People generally agree what a D&D Wizard (or cleric or bard) is (whether they like it is a separate question).

Cosmic magic exists in many reallife cultures, since ancient times.

What D&D does differently is reimagine this magic as if it is a military technology. Like Fireball = grenade.

Fighters, on the other hand, are FAR from agreed upon. Some players want Joe Schmoe just trying to survive, some want Captain America/Black Widow and some want Gilgamesh/Achilles etc. Exactly what a fighter is has never quite solidified into a general consensus. And that makes designing for them REALLY hard.

Heh, it is hard to surpass how divided psionic fans are, but Fighter fans try.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, it is the hardest part. Which is surprising personally because you'd think one of the simplest classes would be easiest to define...

Fighter is easy to define at low levels.

The problem is when you get to the levels when everything is supernatural.

It becomes Batman in the Justice League.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don’t quite agree. Whilst those characters are at the lower end of the superheroic, they still are clearly superheroes, capable of blatantly superhuman feats. I think the poll clearly shows that most people want high level fighters to be more than just normal people. And I think that’s encouraging.

What I got from the poll is what WotC (I think) meant to be the design: tier 4 is the super-hero levels.

A bigger issue is casters' spells have more power in earlier tiers, which the martials can't match without super-power type features.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A lot of high level magic already destroys the game for a fair amount of people.

Well, from what I see, the game seems very popular at the moment. WotC is not going to make a change that sweeping that might drive off their precious new players. Nerfing wizards as has been suggested is far bigger than the stuff that people have been complaining about lately. How do you think that would fly?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Fighter is easy to define at low levels.

The problem is when you get to the levels when everything is supernatural.

It becomes Batman in the Justice League.

But the class isn't just low levels.

Becoming Batman in Tier 4 would be very reasonable to me, but again it is the combination of spells being too powerful at those levels for martials to compete with them.

After dozens of pages and hundreds of posts, we're still at the same issue:

Either raise martials, nerf spells, or find a happy medium. IMO the happy medium is someone like Batman and getting rid of the truly insane spells like Invulnerability and Wish, not to mention dozens of others. But then too many others would say it isn't D&D, etc.

 

[Maxperson]

It did not need clarification, extra attack is clearly written to work only on your turn. Three simple words and at the end of a sentence, but the power is described in only one sentence any way.

Sage Advice says readied actions are part of your turn. Something that is part of your turn can only occur on your turn. It's a valid interpretation to say that ready interrupts the other turn and switches it back to yours until the readied action completes.