Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

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No, I'm not misrepresenting or twisting your words. Sorry.

And not all sloppiness is equal in the eyes of the law. There is a reason why an airline can have a mandatory age cutoff of pilots at 60- degradation of skills- and may have a more lenient standard for flight engineers (many of whom are former pilots).

Degradation of skills =/= sloppiness. You have a False Equivalence going on there.

Near as I can tell, you're just assuming a sloppy resume can only come from a poor worker. You have presented not a shred of proof, just a bald assertion of your belief.

Probably because I never said or implied that they could only come from a poor worker. That has been your Strawman of my words. It's not the that they are only from poor workers. It's that it's a very, very strong indicator that the person is a poor worker. I'm not going to spend 30 hours a day interviewing people with sloppy resumes when I can spend 4 interviewing people who care enough to give me one that isn't sloppy, whether they did it on their own, used a spell checker, or got someone to help them. Dyslexia isn't an excuse for a sloppy resume. If you have a weakness in an area, you do something to overcome it.

And in reaction, I am telling you a simplified statement of the current law: using criteria unrelated to the actual duties of the vacant job position as a pre-interview sorting tool is a risky business practice.

Once again, quality work is related to the job duties of almost every job position. Sloppy work is bad for almost every job position.

The is also the law of unintended consequences to consider: over time, if all resumes submitted to you must be grammatically perfect, regardless of position applied for, all you're doing is making a job for resume writers. The very trait you're seeeking to use as a measuring stick gets concealed as more and more people get help writing resumes (I do it for relatives all the time, FWIW). The poor grammarian/speller's true nature is concealed behind a polished facade.

At least that shows good problem solving skills and the ability to recognize your own weaknesses, along with a desire to overcome them.

No, not at all. There could be correlation or causation. It might even be 100% true.

Unfounded merely means the assertion made has no evidentiary support. Without evidentiary support, it is merely an opinion.

That makes it of low potential value at trial, and possibly not even admissible.

There are a lot more experts that would speak to it being true than not.

In a court proceeding, it can mean exactly that. Especially if you're claiming high correlation or causation. It depends on whether the experiential or scientific test for admissibility is applied.

If you're a STEM expert, you will be expected to supply some kind of hard data. Published & peer reviewed, even. It may even be controversial. But if you don't have anything like that it will be excluded.

And even an experiential expert must have actual experience to make his assertion admissible. If the assertion is that flawed grammar & spelling is an accurate predictor of other poor work habits, if he or his employers haven't actually hired personnel who had flawed grammar & spelling who also had demonstrably poor work habits, his testimony won't be admissible.

Corporations and other business keep all kinds of records and internal studies. If push came to shove, I'm certain I could find an expert with facts and figures to back himself up.

Still, experts at trial and the studies they rely upon (if any) have to be approved to get admitted into evidence under the Daubert and other cases shaping rules of evidence.

(And no, they don't always get it right- I know of at least one trial in which a forensic expert who had investigated hundreds of cases was excluded because the wrong standard of admissibility- experiential vs scientific- was applied.)

Oh, sure. Not all experts are equal and some aren't really qualified, but if you're careful and research the ones you plan on using, you're usually safe.

Granted, a cashier needs to be able to count- less so these days than when machines didn't do most of the math for you- but what is the correlation between the ability to do basic math and the quality of your linguistic skills?

Who cares. That's not what I'm measuring. I'm measuring something different that is very, very relevant to the job of a cashier. A sloppy cashier is more likely to make monetary errors and cost the company money. A sloppy cashier is more likely to miss scanning items and cost the company money. A sloppy cashier is more likely to double scan an item, costing the customer money and hassle, which in turn can cause that customer to stop shopping at the store........costing the company money.
 

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I asked before, and I will again - upon what do you base this assertion? If you cannot give a well-supported answer beyond, "I believe this to be true," then maybe you should not be throwing stones at others over sloppiness, because that isn't nice, tight, neat, well-funded reasoning. So far, it is a personal opinion.

Personal experience and the experience of many others who are in leadership positions and have also had that experience.

No, they really aren't anything like the numbers seen in astronomy. But that's okay. I forgive your sloppy language use.

It wasn't sloppy, it was exaggerated intentionally. ;)
 

Probably because I never said or implied that they could only come from a poor worker. That has been your Strawman of my words. It's not the that they are only from poor workers. It's that it's a very, very strong indicator that the person is a poor worker. I'm not going to spend 30 hours a day interviewing people with sloppy resumes when I can spend 4 interviewing people who care enough to give me one that isn't sloppy, whether they did it on their own, used a spell checker, or got someone to help them.
That made me laugh.
 

Degradation of skills =/= sloppiness. You have a False Equivalence going on there.
I could break down why I chose that example, but fair enough. Moving on.


Probably because I never said or implied that they could only come from a poor worker. That has been your Strawman of my words. It's not the that they are only from poor workers. It's that it's a very, very strong indicator that the person is a poor worker.

By using grammar & spelling flaws as an absolute bar to getting an interview, you've made a pretty strong implication, IMHO.

And again, what proof do you have to support the assertion the correlation exists beyond your repeated assertion?

I'm not going to spend 30 hours a day interviewing people with sloppy resumes when I can spend 4 interviewing people who care enough to give me one that isn't sloppy, whether they did it on their own, used a spell checker, or got someone to help them. Dyslexia isn't an excuse for a sloppy resume. If you have a weakness in an area, you do something to overcome it.
Dyslexia is a bit of a poser. It often goes undiagnosed. And because of that, it is covered under the ADA.

Under the ADA, those who ARE diagnosed are legally required to receive reasonable accommodations. They are given extra time to complete bar exams, for instance.

(Personally, I don't trust spell checkers. They can't distinguish between some of the most common errors: their/there/they're are equivalent to them for instance; they can't tell that you meant to type "bad" instead of "bat".)

Once again, quality work is related to the job duties of almost every job position. Sloppy work is bad for almost every job position.
I don't disagree that sloppy work is bad for any position. Once again, though, I reject your unsupported assertion that the correlation between grammatical & spelling errors and being a poor workman is a strong one.

There are a lot more experts that would speak to it being true than not.
Do tell? Can you cite some? One?

Corporations and other business keep all kinds of records and internal studies. If push came to shove, I'm certain I could find an expert with facts and figures to back himself up.

You'd pretty much have to.
 
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What I'm getting is that "discrimination" and "racism" are code words in the law which if somebody uses them, the accusation alone = irrefutable proof of guilt.
Then you do not get it. The proof is ethnicities who are underrepresented because someone doesn't like ethnic names.

I'm also getting that several participants are beyond reasoning with; they want to win and beat the disagree-ers over the head with an "I'M RIGHT" club.
Don't be so harsh with Ovi and Max.
 

Personal experience and the experience of many others who are in leadership positions and have also had that experience.

In other words, your only support is anecdotal. Not only that, but you rely on anecdotes of unnamed, unspecified, unverifiable, "many others," as if that is appropriate when a point is contested. This does not give additional strength to your argument, as it is merely another way of saying, "Trust me, I know." It leaves your assertion as personal belief.

Which is fine. You are allowed to have personal beliefs. But you should admit them to be such, rather than assert them as truths. Those outside your head do not have any reason to trust your personal assessment. Those *inside* your head should question your personal assessments on a regular basis, as the human mind is subject to a horde of cognitive biases that frequently prevent it from accurately modelling behaviors of large groups that you don't personally know.
 

Dyslexia is a bit of a poser. It often goes undiagnosed. And because of that, it is covered under the ADA.

Under the ADA, those who ARE diagnosed are legally required to receive reasonable accommodations. They are given extra time to complete bar exams, for instance.

(Personally, I don't trust spell checkers. They can't distinguish between some of the most common errors: their/there/they're are equivalent to them for instance; they can't tell that you meant to type "bad" instead of "bat".)

Diagnosed or not, someone with it will know that they have a problem with spelling and can seek help with something as important as a resume. They also have many times more time than the entire bar exam to get a one page resume right, so that particular issue is a non-starter here. They can literally spend months working on the resume if they want to.

I don't disagree that sloppy work is bad for any position. Once again, though, I reject your unsupported assertion that the correlation between grammatical & spelling errors and being a poor workman is a strong one.

Do tell? Can you cite some? One?

Why do you think the overwhelming majority of experts in the field of hiring engage in this practice? HR managers and hiring executives are experts in the field hiring employees and the reasons for hiring, firing, and eliminating resumes. Citing some or one is easier than eating pie. 150 such experts were talked to in there. 40% said one mistake would kill the resume. 36% more said it would take two.

http://ledgerlink.monster.com/benef...n-employment-prospects-executive-survey-shows
 


Reminds me of a piece of dialogue from Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man.

-Who are you travelin' with?

-Uhm... Nobody.
 

In other words, your only support is anecdotal. Not only that, but you rely on anecdotes of unnamed, unspecified, unverifiable, "many others," as if that is appropriate when a point is contested. This does not give additional strength to your argument, as it is merely another way of saying, "Trust me, I know." It leaves your assertion as personal belief.

Which is fine. You are allowed to have personal beliefs. But you should admit them to be such, rather than assert them as truths. Those outside your head do not have any reason to trust your personal assessment. Those *inside* your head should question your personal assessments on a regular basis, as the human mind is subject to a horde of cognitive biases that frequently prevent it from accurately modelling behaviors of large groups that you don't personally know.

"Anecdotally" years back, when I vetted resumes, I actually preferred somewhat sloppy ones to perfect ones. At least I could presume that the less than perfect ones were prepared by the person I might be interviewing. I got pretty good at spotting professionally prepared resumes, by style and keywords. Those tell me nothing about the applicant. Names were meaningless. Verifiable experience was important, when such was important for the job. My two best hires, who ended up as my assistants at different points, would have been passed over out of hand by some here because of imperfect use of the English language. I find that when someone speaks 4 or 5 languages, which was very useful to me (French was a necessity for my assistants), subtle specific usages creep into the use of English. For example without already knowing, I'd have pegged goldomark as a primary French speaker anyway because of the subtle inflections in language and very specific spelling mistakes, common to French speakers.
 

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