D&D General class consept question?

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Go with a Paladin as the party healer.

They get Cure Sounds as a spell and can Lay Hands.

Their powers are from the dedication to an oath, not a god. Great in combat, too.
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
healer/support class yeah but not one who is useless in other areas.

I just generally dislike the draw from the universe with faith thing I just do not get it nor am I able to convincingly replicate faith for rp of any kind beyond trust in people.

I thank you for your examples I just do not see how they would not just be the same thing as a wizard?

I have heard of them but they suck in both non-healing and are thematically light wights.

but they more likely thought the sun could be bargained with thus it was the lowest variant of a deity, but how does faith grant power I do not get it?

warlocks are honestly more similar thematically to clerics than people would think, I just hate sorcerers it is complex but I hate them, the monk is nice but not a full caster.
the eberron idea you gave is nice but I hate it for the reason I hate Divine Soul Sorcerors.

darksun would not have artificers and it has the wrong thematics also some people just do not want them in their setting.

I honestly just do not get bards how do they even work? where does the concept come from?
How do Wizard's work? Makes no sense to me that studying some books and saying a specific sequence of words with odd hand gyrations while holding a few specific items would give you supernatural powers. Clerics I get. Druids I get. Sorcerers I get. Warlocks I get. But Wizard's, how the heck does that work?
 

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
Go with a Paladin as the party healer.

They get Cure Sounds as a spell and can Lay Hands.

Their powers are from the dedication to an oath, not a god. Great in combat, too.
but what makes the oath work? it bugs me metaphysically.

How do Wizard's work? Makes no sense to me that studying some books and saying a specific sequence of words with odd hand gyrations while holding a few specific items would give you supernatural powers. Clerics I get. Druids I get. Sorcerers I get. Warlocks I get. But Wizard's, how the heck does that work?
manipulation of a back layer of reality that can be subject to sapient thought thus wizards are magic physicists.

how do you get druids? warlock should be diving casters they fit in well.

Sorcerers make no sense at all, how are you getting them?
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
but what makes the oath work? it bugs me metaphysically.
If your response to every class is "what makes them work" your issues aren't with the cleric or the druid, but instead with the fundamental nature of D&D.

None of the classes make sense if you are expecting the real world to be mirrored within the game. That's just not what D&D, or any RPG, is.

Paladins are granted powers because the fiction says that they are so dedicated to an oath that they gain access to supernatural powers of magic and more.

Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Whether sworn before a god’s altar and the witness of a priest, in a sacred glade before nature spirits and fey beings, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witness, a paladin’s oath is a powerful bond. It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion.
How does that work? By being one of the explicitly called out paths to power that is fundamental to the game world. No suspension of disbelief is required. It is a given within the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons. If you are unwilling to accept the givens that Bards gain access to power through their supernatural connections to the arts and that Paladins gain access to power through their Oath, and that Sorcerers are born with innate access to powers, and that Druids can access to power through their essentially divine connection to nature, then D&D may not be the right game.

None of it makes sense or it all does.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
the rough party function as the person who can provide similar spell need for healing and restricting but without inherent need for the worship of something.
In 3E & 5E Bards fit the role perfectly. They draw upon a different source of magic than the divine powers of the cleric or druid, instead tapping into the magic of music. Still considered arcane in 3E, their unusual practices allowed them to access healing magic and similar things normally denied arcane casters.

In 4E there were a ton of classes that fit the role (defined as Leader), with Warlord being one of the most popular. A martial character, they had knowledge that helped their allies overcome negative effects (often by sheer willpower).
 

warlocks are honestly more similar thematically to clerics than people would think, I just hate sorcerers it is complex but I hate them, the monk is nice but not a full caster.
I thought the warlock might appeal because its not like a cleric that you have to roleplay having some sort of transcendental faith.
For example I have a Warlock whose power was gifted to her by a celestial phoenix due to the actions of an ancestor. She respects it, but she doesn't worship it like a cleric.

the eberron idea you gave is nice but I hate it for the reason I hate Divine Soul Sorcerors.
OK. Why do you hate divine soul sorcerors? If you accept that magic power can be innate to some creatures, then its not much of a leap to think that sometimes a PC race has that power.

Eberron has a couple of non-worship religions: The Silver Flame and Blood of Vol. One doesn't care whether you worship it on not, just that you're willing to defend others from evil. The other believes that you have all the power you need within you: you just have to unlock it.

darksun would not have artificers and it has the wrong thematics also some people just do not want them in their setting.
Dark Sun absolutely can have Artificers:
A Halfling Lifebinder that has created plants whose seeds can invigorate you, or burst with acid. Their body is covered with vines that grow around them and into their skin, granting them additional powers.
A Thri-Kreen covered in fetishes crafted from the bones of its previous prey. Its gythka thums with psionic power and it is accompanied by a manifestation looking like a beetle made up of plates of force with a piece of amber suspended within it.
A human hermit walks out of the desert, the crystals dangling from their harness swaying and chiming in the nonexistent breeze. Focusing their latent pyrokinesis through a long chunk of quartz, a point in the air a short distance away resonates with the same energy, then superheats and explodes into plasma.

I honestly just do not get bards how do they even work? where does the concept come from?
If you're asking where the concept of the "combat lutist that sings to be heard over their clothes" comes from, we probably need to blame Gygax. :)
If you're asking about where their magic comes from, then you have to have an idea as to where any magic comes from. - And you haven't told us what yours is.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
manipulation of a back layer of reality that can be subject to sapient thought thus wizards are magic physicists.

how do you get druids? warlock should be diving casters they fit in well.

Sorcerers make no sense at all, how are you getting them?
Sorcerer = Innately Magical Person (manipulates the back layer of reality due to their nature)
Cleric = Magical Priest (manipulates the back layer of reality due to God granted power)
Warlock = Magical Bargain (manipulates the back layer of reality due to patron granted power)
Druid = Magical Naturalist (manipulates the back layer of reality due to their connection and understanding of nature)

Seems to me your explanation for what magic is applies to all the classes. They each manipulate the back layer of reality, albeit in different ways. That you accept that explanation for a Wizard and not for the others strikes me as a bit irrational?
 


Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
In 3E & 5E Bards fit the role perfectly. They draw upon a different source of magic than the divine powers of the cleric or druid, instead tapping into the magic of music. Still considered arcane in 3E, their unusual practices allowed them to access healing magic and similar things normally denied arcane casters.

In 4E there were a ton of classes that fit the role (defined as Leader), with Warlord being one of the most popular. A martial character, they had knowledge that helped their allies overcome negative effects (often by sheer willpower).
magic of music?

I get the warlord but it is not quite what I want.
If your response to every class is "what makes them work" your issues aren't with the cleric or the druid, but instead with the fundamental nature of D&D.

None of the classes make sense if you are expecting the real world to be mirrored within the game. That's just not what D&D, or any RPG, is.

Paladins are granted powers because the fiction says that they are so dedicated to an oath that they gain access to supernatural powers of magic and more.


How does that work? By being one of the explicitly called out paths to power that is fundamental to the game world. No suspension of disbelief is required. It is a given within the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons. If you are unwilling to accept the givens that Bards gain access to power through their supernatural connections to the arts and that Paladins gain access to power through their Oath, and that Sorcerers are born with innate access to powers, and that Druids can access to power through their essentially divine connection to nature, then D&D may not be the right game.

None of it makes sense or it all does.
I will consider I am annoying yes but the fiction does not make sense I have heard in the past editions they served the gods and that worked much better in how they got their power, an oath can change people but warp reality not so much.

the divine connection is what confuses me as to how that works without a god is not something people have explained to me.

sorcerers make sense in how they do it I just hate it, mechanically they are fine to me just thematically toxic.
I thought the warlock might appeal because its not like a cleric that you have to roleplay having some sort of transcendental faith.
For example I have a Warlock whose power was gifted to her by a celestial phoenix due to the actions of an ancestor. She respects it, but she doesn't worship it like a cleric.

OK. Why do you hate divine soul sorcerors? If you accept that magic power can be innate to some creatures, then its not much of a leap to think that sometimes a PC race has that power.

Eberron has a couple of non-worship religions: The Silver Flame and Blood of Vol. One doesn't care whether you worship it on not, just that you're willing to defend others from evil. The other believes that you have all the power you need within you: you just have to unlock it.

Dark Sun absolutely can have Artificers:
A Halfling Lifebinder that has created plants whose seeds can invigorate you, or burst with acid. Their body is covered with vines that grow around them and into their skin, granting them additional powers.
A Thri-Kreen covered in fetishes crafted from the bones of its previous prey. Its gythka thums with psionic power and it is accompanied by a manifestation looking like a beetle made up of plates of force with a piece of amber suspended within it.
A human hermit walks out of the desert, the crystals dangling from their harness swaying and chiming in the nonexistent breeze. Focusing their latent pyrokinesis through a long chunk of quartz, a point in the air a short distance away resonates with the same energy, then superheats and explodes into plasma.

If you're asking where the concept of the "combat lutist that sings to be heard over their clothes" comes from, we probably need to blame Gygax. :)
If you're asking about where their magic comes from, then you have to have an idea as to where any magic comes from. - And you haven't told us what yours is.
warlock and clerics are very similar to me they are made to serve also never gotten a sufficiently good patron idea nor found one, as they are both based on how humans relate to gods in old faiths.

sorcerers just disgust me power by bloodline is not a trope I like at all.

okay you win in the official settings but not all dm would agree, but now we need an artificer who fits those concepts super well.

on where magic comes from.
arcane manipulation of a back layer of reality that can be subject to sapient thought through the correct means sort of like being able to hack the worse code but with a side order of magic and a force of nature it is a mindless thing that can warp sections of reality depending on the intensity or how focused an area is with an arcane polarity.

divine magic is theurgic in nature it is gifted power normally from Moralia entities or embodiments of concept with sufficient weight.

note the outer planes of Planescape should be call Moralia planes or the place of morality.
 

jgsugden

Legend
...I just generally dislike the draw from the universe with faith thing I just do not get it nor am I able to convincingly replicate faith for rp of any kind beyond trust in people.

I thank you for your examples I just do not see how they would not just be the same thing as a wizard?...
If you don't get it, it is a wonderful thing to try. One of the uses of role playing outside of games is allowing people a chance to "walk in the shoes of another" and come to understand things they do not. I'm not telling you to do it or anything along those lines... just mentioning it.

As for not seeing how they would not just be the same thing as a wizard, I do not know what you mean? From a lore perspective? From a mechanical perspective? I mentioned a bunch of different ideas and none of them play like a wizard in my setting, and there is a lot of hours logged in that campaign in this, and most prior, editions.
 

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