D&D 5E Class Design Poll: the Paladin

[ZombieRoboNinja]

In the latest L&L column, Mike Mearls discusses the current iteration of class design, where there look to be three core systems (expertise dice, spells, and a new skill-related system), and "hybrid" classes like the paladin dip into more than one of them. (So the paladin would have a combination of divine spells, expertise dice, and special abilities.)

I don't think it's fair to prejudge this class design until we see it. But I'm curious what people's preferences are for the design of a class like the paladin.

Personally, I'd like to see the paladin have its own unique central mechanic, rather than having to keep track of spells, expertise dice, and class abilities every round.

What do you think?

 

[keterys]

For me, it depends a whole lot on how multiclassing works.

If their idea for a unique paladin shtick is to hyperfocus on alignment as mechanics, I'd rather they stuck to mixing melee and casting.

 

[Raith5]

I would like to see a separate mechanism. I think cleric spells should stay with clerics.

It seems that smiting is something that can be used to build on effects of extra damage, assisting allies, stunning undead and fiends at higher level, etc

 

[Mezzer]

Paladins have always had a few special toys at their disposal, but no specific dominant mechanic for how they work. They're beefy, can augment that with spells, can lay on hands, do some turning, etc. I'm not entirely sure if they need to get something new and unique, but if it's ever gonna happen, now's the best time.

 

[Manbearcat]

I chose "A full progression of expertise dice/maneuvers, differentiated from fighter by divine focus."

A) I like the expertise dice/maneuvers template as a unified mechanic representing martial training and acumen.

B) I like the 4e Essentials Paladin as a wonderful mechanic and thematic rendering of the class. I think this would best model that version of the Paladin.

C) I would like the Paladin's Divine aspect to be segmented away from the Cleric spell list. A "Divine Focus" that functionally blends the mechanics of its martial prowess and "divinity wrought through ardent, unflappable devotion" that fits with the classes historical flavor (fearlessness, Divine Challenge/Radiance, Smite, Lay on Hands, able to remove afflictions, Divine Mount, etc) would hit all the marks I think. You could easily have Virtues and Vices serve to focus and differentiate the various Paladins.

D) I think this model works best for all "gish" type classes. Whether the Bladesinger is going to be an actual class or achieved via robust multi-class rules that synergize Arcane Tradition and Fighter Style/ED/Maneuvers somehow I don't know...but, to use your terminology, I hold that a F/M (Bladesinger, etc) would certainly be more easily/coherently conceptualized and executed under the design auspices of "A full progression of expertise dice/maneuvers, differentiated from fighter by arcane focus." I could easily make one up right now in probably 10 minutes. As such, I think the Paladin, existing in the similar design space, would be best conceived under the same considerations.

 

[Manbearcat]

As an aside. I think that one of the major drawbacks of a simplified action economy (primarily the loss of minor/swift actions) is that in marrying swordplay and spellcasting or divine invocations and hammer swings, you have to embed these "minor/swift" actions into the powers themselves, thus creating unwieldy, clunky text blocks. The use of Expertise Dice helps alleviate this issue in a more elegant fashion, eg;

Bladesinger Spellsong/Arcane Strike = Cast a Wizard Spell and spend Expertise Dice to make a melee attack simultaneously using the ED dice as damage

or

Paladin Divine Challenge = Make an MBA and spend an ED to mark an opponent in (whatever radius) with Divine Challenge. If the enemy attacks an ally, as an immediate action, roll the ED dice spent to determine Divine Retribution as Radiant Damage.

 

[SageMinerve]

I want a Paladin:

1) with unique divine abilities (Smite, Lay on hands, etc.); these MUST NOT be spells, because...

2) that doesn't learn/cast spells. Reinforce the difference between Paladins and Clerics;

3) that stands for some ideal, and that keeping true to that ideal has real consequences. It doesn't have, but can be, alignment and/or deities.

And I'd lower the fighting prowess of the cleric just a wee bit so that there's a real distinction between paladin and cleric: martial-wise, a cleric should be to the paladin as a wizard is to the fighter.

If the Paladin casts spells, or the cleric is too melee-savvy, the line blurs between them and it bothers me. A little, at least: I'm not talking about deal-breaking or anything (invoking that threat gets old really fast, IMO); after all, I've played 4 editions of D&D where that line was often very blurry, and that didn't prevent me from having any fun.

 

[Sunseeker]

Paladin's should get a "new" mechanic, that is, they should get their three staple mechanics, and then have them suitably themed to differentiate from the cleric or the fighter.

To me, the Paladin possesses 3 things that make them unique.

1: Smite. While other classes can smite, the typical trope is that of a holy warrior channeling the might of their god into their attack against their enemies. Their smite naturally aims for things opposed to the ideals of their god, and deals in the same energies their god deals with(so a god of sun and sky would get holy damage, while a god of lightning and sea would get electricity).

2: Lay on hands. While the Paladin is a holy juggernaut, tearing through enemy ranks with their divine power, the Paladin is also uses their power to aid the weak and defend the innocent. Lay on Hands is a staple Paladin ability, let it take on extra effects as the paladin levels, customize it to the god the paladin follows to buff or even be used as a touch-attack to harm foes.

3: Aura's. Unlike other warriors, the Paladin champions their cause without remose. At all times the exude the power of the divine being they follow and the causes they support. Just being around the paladin makes you feel those energies as well, for good or ill. As the paladin grows more powerful, so should their aura's, taking on more abilities and growing in size and effect.

In my mind, the Paladin is the divinely-focused warrior. They lack the versatility of combat maneuvers, and the depth of spellcasting, but they make up for it in a greater amount of permanency to their powers, being able to use them more frequently and often as simply as toggling them on or off.

 

[Li Shenron]

Channel Divinity.

With divine spells, the Cleric really doesn't need an additional "magic" mechanic, so why not totally moving it to the Paladin class and make it their own unique mechanic?

That said, I'd be fine also with a mix like in 3ed.

 

[Bungo_Underhill]

martial-wise, a cleric should be to the paladin as a wizard is to the fighter.

I can't agree with this. In the melee capable spectrum I feel the default should be that the fighter is at the top and the wizard is at the bottom. The paladin should be close to the capabilities of the fighter in melee, but if I understand your example right this would put the cleric behind the wizard, when I feel they should actually be reasonably ahead of arcane casters.