Class variants: ranger, fighter, and others ("Class X" series)

[peterka99]

Thanks for the comments! Let me respond on the Ranger...
Yeah, definitely I addressed this with Aura of Awareness, but the idea of sharing special senses is really intriguing. Imagine an elven ranger granting darkvision to the humans in her party....how would that work narratively without being overtly magical? I guess I can see it...the ranger would be coaching them about how to get their eyes to adapt to the darkness...or something? A bit of a stretch.

My suggestion was: guard-scout-warden
mundane- mixed- magical

so the share of perception from the ranger is purely magical.

 

[peterka99]

Thanks for the comments! Let me respond on the Ranger...


I ended up scrapping Studied Strike (and therefore Horde Tactics).

Instead, I replaced it with Overwatch, which is similar to the hunter's mark spell, except with concentration as the limiting factor. Down the road, multi-classing this version of the ranger with the psionic mystic (see Unearthed Arcana) might be problematic because they share a reliance on concentration. However, with the PHB classes I think it works fine.

What about the warden ? Overwatch stacks with hunter's mark ?

Is my suggestion of sharing ...

offense for guard
move for scout
sense for warden

good for you ?

Warden always have spells, so the abilities should be nerfed... the wildcrafts are supposed to counterbalance the magic loss. Please insert somewhere my special sense sharing, I really like it ! WARDEN’S WRATH should have a once a short rest limit.

Please update the pdf soon as it looks like a mess to me now... I have to come back home from work.

 

[peterka99]

At 18th level, the range of your aura increases to 30 feet.

You mean 17th ? You have to improve wilderness lore as well at these levels,otherwise the feature is weak...

 

[peterka99]

@peterka99 Actually, I was right about the Healing Poultices.

I meant this is too much for a wildcraft. A wild craft = 2/3 of a feat as you give 2 skills for uncanny senses. Compared to the heal feat...

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6787234]peterka99[/MENTION] Thanks for all the advice and critique, mate!

I made some time and updated everything: see the "version 2" PDF in the first post. Lots of changes, which I've conveniently catalogued at the end of the PDF in a change log, which I'll put here as well.

And by popular demand I put together my version of the Wastelands Beastmaster sub-class, which really is meant to harken back to the 1982 Mark Singer flick, with a touch of wargs from Song of Ice and Fire, and revised ranger animal followers tables from AD&D.

[SBLOCK=Ranger X Change Log 7/22]
Core Class
Finished writing “Wilderness Lore”
Replaced “Studied Strike” with “Overwatch”
Replaced “Skirmish” with “Aura of Awareness”
Replaced “Foe Slayer” with “Free Movement”

Borderlands Guard
Replaced “Horde Tactics” with “Allied Overwatch”
Revised “Vigilance”
Revised “Defensive Camp”

Scout
Modified “Scout’s Movement”
Added a modified “Skirmish” @7th
Added “Evasion” @11th
Added “Hidden Byways” @15th

Wildlands Warden
Modified “Spellcasting” so it’s only druid spells, but with optional sidebar for ranger spells

Wastelands Beastmaster
Added a new 4th sub-class! Woohoo!

Wildcrafts
Revised “Enhanced Darkvision”
Revised and renamed “Group Stealth” to “Ambush Expertise”
Revised “Poultices”
Added “Pathfinding”
Added “Reconnaissance” thanks to [MENTION=6787234]peterka99[/MENTION]
Added “Scrying Lore” thanks to [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION][/SBLOCK]

 

[peterka99]

All the blanks are filled. Good. Before discussing balance, here are a few points:

1) Followers and stronghold should be optional as you explained for the knight's rewards (fighter pdf). Just allow a wildcraft as an optional replacement.

2) I still think the beastmaster should not be a sub-class but should get extra wildcraft to boost her beast. I'll post them later if you want.

3) I see you did not agree with the "sharing" of combat prowess and move... Let's make it a (magical or mundane) wildcraft. Share overwatch or scout movement for 1 minute, share "special senses" for 1 hour , once before a short rest. For those under awareness aura range. Or add it as a 11th or 17th feature...

4) The scout 15th ability hidden byways is a way to replace teleport ? How can the scout travel so fast without knowing the place ? I think the path should be known in advance, and the party should magically travel even faster: maybe 1/4 of the time ?

5) Defensive camp: just replace it by "tiny safe mansion" spell and forget about all long rest hazards completely, instead of adding very situational bonuses that are hardly worthing the cost to keep tracking of.

6) I still consider druid shillelagh spell OP. Just ban it with the same kind of notice you posted for hunter's mark. Note: just indicate that the spells may be obtained by multiclassing or feats...

Otherwise it is almost completed! Good job!

 

[Quickleaf]

1) Followers and stronghold should be optional as you explained for the knight's rewards (fighter pdf). Just allow a wildcraft as an optional replacement.

I can do that. However, it leaves the 10th level feature of the Borderlands Guard open... And really a stronghold and followers fit the Borderlands Guard thematically so well... Ditto for the Beastmaster. I suppose I could just give them those wildcrafts "for free", but that seems to be cutting corners...

2) I still think the beastmaster should not be a sub-class but should get extra wildcraft to boost her beast. I'll post them later if you want.

Initially I didn't think the beastmaster was really an archetype. Rather, it answered the question of how the ranger does things, not why they do them. The other 3 sub-classes clearly have a why driving them. They also clearly fall along a spectrum of closer to civilization <----> farther from civilization.

Then after reading hearing some arguments in favor of a Beastmaster sub-class, I went back to the source material (the 1982 movie), and I realized there is a particular character type embodied there: A distinctly warrior-type who is keenly in tune with the animal world, but doesn't really use magic, someone who relates more to animals than to men. They dwell in the extreme and hostilewilderness, far from even the ancient elven glades or sylvan encampments where a Wildlands Warden might be found. Their driving reason for being is mediating between the world of man and beast, and navigating the sometimes blurred boundary between the two. Whereas the Wildlands Warden is about safeguarding nature in its totality, the plants & animals, the cycles of life, the streams, the ecological balance, etc. from mankind.

3) I see you did not agree with the "sharing" of combat prowess and move... Let's make it a (magical or mundane) wildcraft. Share overwatch or scout movement for 1 minute, share "special senses" for 1 hour , once before a short rest. For those under awareness aura range. Or add it as a 11th or 17th feature...

I think it's an idea with merit. I just haven't had time to sit down and do the design work for it yet. Because it's a more involved idea that requires cross-referencing and iterating, it takes more time. Simple as that.

4) The scout 15th ability hidden byways is a way to replace teleport ? How can the scout travel so fast without knowing the place ? I think the path should be known in advance, and the party should magically travel even faster: maybe 1/4 of the time ?

Hidden Byways is meant to have a semi-mystical vibe, relying on the mythological ideas of ley lines and faerie trods. And it is meant to be a fast travel option yes, but it's also meant to be a safe travel option & to prevent your party from being tracked.
I agree that clarifying it only works to places you know of in advance would be good, and increasing how much it cuts down travel would be good too.

5) Defensive camp: just replace it by "tiny safe mansion" spell and forget about all long rest hazards completely, instead of adding very situational bonuses that are hardly worthing the cost to keep tracking of.

I agree that the feature needs further work to be more relevant. However, replicating Leomund's tiny hut is definitely not the way I want to go! Especially because the Borderlands Guard isn't meant to have a trace of magic built into the sub-class - that would go against its theme. But also because I'm actually trying to do something that *is* different than Leomund's tiny hut, I just haven't found the right rules for it yet.

6) I still consider druid shillelagh spell OP. Just ban it with the same kind of notice you posted for hunter's mark. Note: just indicate that the spells may be obtained by multiclassing or feats...

I don't agree with your assessment of shillelagh being OP. In actual play I haven't seen it break anything, so my feeling is the internet arguments against shillelagh are mostly theory craft without a basis in actual play. Care to elaborate why you consider it OP?

Otherwise it is almost completed! Good job!

Thanks! And thanks for your insights and help!

 

[steeldragons]

I can do that. However, it leaves the 10th level feature of the Borderlands Guard open... And really a stronghold and followers fit the Borderlands Guard thematically so well... Ditto for the Beastmaster. I suppose I could just give them those wildcrafts "for free", but that seems to be cutting corners...

You can view it that way...or...you can view it as "Is this something any other class/subclass receives?" No? Then it's a special ability of this archetype. Done. That's all any of these abilities are. What can this subclass do that other's can't?

Getting 2 free Wildcrafts can easily be a special -Guardian only- ability or it can be built in as a "subclasses of the Ranger get this" in which case, at the same level for each subclass, you should include a "Get these 2 assigned Wildcrafts" or "Pick 2 additional Wildcrafts of your choice."

Actually, if it's not going to dictate the flavor [by choosing the WCs for them], then I would say make it they get to pick 1 additional WC.

Initially I didn't think the beastmaster was really an archetype. Rather, it answered the question of how the ranger does things, not why they do them. The other 3 sub-classes clearly have a why driving them. They also clearly fall along a spectrum of closer to civilization <----> farther from civilization.

Then after reading hearing some arguments in favor of a Beastmaster sub-class, I went back to the source material (the 1982 movie), and I realized there is a particular character type embodied there: A distinctly warrior-type who is keenly in tune with the animal world, but doesn't really use magic, someone who relates more to animals than to men. They dwell in the extreme and hostilewilderness, far from even the ancient elven glades or sylvan encampments where a Wildlands Warden might be found. Their driving reason for being is mediating between the world of man and beast, and navigating the sometimes blurred boundary between the two. Whereas the Wildlands Warden is about safeguarding nature in its totality, the plants & animals, the cycles of life, the streams, the ecological balance, etc. from mankind.

While I'll grant you the origin of "the Beastmaster" [movie] archetype is a distinct character, the Ranger Beastmaster is really nothing more/been turned into a powergamer wet dream, with extra claws and bites, something to provide auto-flanking, HP sponge, etc... for the PC to have/do more than other characters.

I very much enjoy the movie Beastmaster and the Song of Ice & Fire "warg" charaacter idea. I think it is better served, however, in flavor and story as you have defined it, as a Barbarian subclass than a Ranger one. Just my initial thought/reaction.

I agree that the feature needs further work to be more relevant. However, replicating Leomund's tiny hut is definitely not the way I want to go! Especially because the Borderlands Guard isn't meant to have a trace of magic built into the sub-class - that would go against its theme. But also because I'm actually trying to do something that *is* different than Leomund's tiny hut, I just haven't found the right rules for it yet.

Don't you have a Disguise/Camouflage Campsite or something similar? A "Duck Blind/Hunter's Blind" Wildcraft really shouldn't be too far off that, if not covered by that WC, itself. Something that provides cover while allowing an attack...that's all Leo's Hut is for, right?

 

[peterka99]

Don't you have a Disguise/Camouflage Campsite or something similar? A "Duck Blind/Hunter's Blind" Wildcraft really shouldn't be too far off that, if not covered by that WC, itself. Something that provides cover while allowing an attack...that's all Leo's Hut is for, right?

2 options:

- Your party is safe for the night. Period.

- Your party is protected to stand against the wave, or simply rest. That way, insure you get real protection. Traps. Cover. HP are not thematic, there are bards and leadership feat for that. Like the +1 defense the scout get in boardgame Smallworld.

 

[peterka99]

I don't agree with your assessment of shillelagh being OP. In actual play I haven't seen it break anything, so my feeling is the internet arguments against shillelagh are mostly theory craft without a basis in actual play. Care to elaborate why you consider it OP?

1) The ranger may theoretically turns a stick into a 1d8 weapon- instant weapon
2) RAW (with a little interpretation), a dual-weapon user may get 2 shil. both in each hand since it is written "draw 2 weapons when one is usually drawn"
3) Magical weapon at 1st level....