Classes and Levels or Point buy

[EdL]

I prefer a system to have levels and point buy, but no classes. However, I don't know of any.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I don't have a preference...it really depends on the game. D&D just needs Class and Levels. Its PART of D&D.

But other games don't need it, and work just fine without them.

 

[Turjan]

I'm somewhat undecided here.

I like point buy systems, but only if they provide "starting packages", which is something similar to a class. The big difficulty with point buy systems is that they are even harder to balance. They often lead to cherry picking and extremely specialized characters. Nevertheless, with the right group of people, they are a fun option. The only large disadvantage of point buy systems are the often bland magical systems. How do you express "Leomund's tiny hut" in point buy?

 

[Merlion]

The only large disadvantage of point buy systems are the often bland magical systems. How do you express "Leomund's tiny hut" in point buy?

Yes thats what I've been trying to get at also but was having trouble expressing. Magic in point buy systems often tends to be a bit boring. I like broad magic systems that you can do many things with, but the magic in point buys is generally so lacking in definition you end up unable to do a lot of things. Complicated effects like the Prismatic spells, Mordenkainen's Mansion, indeed a lot of utility type things are often largely missing from those systems.


Thats why I love Arcana Unearthed magic. It has set, specific spells like D&D, but you can heighten or diminish them, use Modify Spell on them and add templates to give you more versatility and options when casting, as well as more types of spellcasting characters. A Magister can be a blaster (of various different types) or a Blessed Mage who heals and augments allies, or a master defender who erects magical wards and barriers and dispels the effects of others, or a master of transmutation or an elementalist or any of a hundred other things.

 

[interwyrm]

How do you express "Leomund's tiny hut" in point buy?

Spell: Refuge
Modifications:
Invisible
Ethereal
Provides Food
Supports x lifeforms
Lasts x time
Prevents Scrying

etc...

I think that the magic system for D&D is SERIOUSLY flawed. There are so many spells it's nigh impossible to remember them. What needs to happen is there should be a single spell, which can duplicate the effects of rope trick/tiny hut/mordenkainen's mansion/etc.

How about a single spell that creates ag's scorcher, fireball, burning hands, flame strike, etc?

Or another one that duplicates invis/greater invis/superior invis
Or levitate/fly/overland flight.

There are so many spells that aren't "flavorful," they are just bland reproductions of others spells, except at a higher power level.

 

[GlassJaw]

I prefer a system to have levels and point buy, but no classes. However, I don't know of any.

Mutants & Masterminds comes close.

 

[Merlion]

Spell: Refuge
Modifications:
Invisible
Ethereal
Provides Food
Supports x lifeforms
Lasts x time
Prevents Scrying

etc...

I think that the magic system for D&D is SERIOUSLY flawed. There are so many spells it's nigh impossible to remember them. What needs to happen is there should be a single spell, which can duplicate the effects of rope trick/tiny hut/mordenkainen's mansion/etc.

How about a single spell that creates ag's scorcher, fireball, burning hands, flame strike, etc?

Or another one that duplicates invis/greater invis/superior invis
Or levitate/fly/overland flight.

There are so many spells that aren't "flavorful," they are just bland reproductions of others spells, except at a higher power level.

I dont see the difference if thats what you think. Except that trying to create a single spell that somehow scales itself is going to be a lot more complicated than writting a spell chain within a spell level system.



Personally, I prefer lots of different spells to a few bland spells, just like I prefer lots of base classes (and prestige classes along with them) to a few very basic classes.


Although I agree that there should be more spells that have more than one use option.


Also, the Arcana Unearthed magic system does adress this somewhat. Take Invisibility for instance...theres just 1 Invisibility spell, and its Heightened version is basically like Greater Invisibility in D&D

Likewise, a Diminished Sorcererous Blast is somewhat akin to Scorching Ray, the regular version is Fireball (but with any element) and the Heightened version does more damage and can be an ebery type (acid, fire, sonic, cold, electricity) or an element (air fire water earth)

 

[interwyrm]

My point is that there are far too many spells in D&D. The spell I was suggesting actually works best with a magic system where you have to roll against a target number to suceed (and maybe expend resources like hp to make up the difference) The idea is that the basic spell seed has a target number, and the different modifications increase that target number.

I think that this system would work well. When you have a classed system with spells in levels 0-9, you can't really do that so well

 

[Merlion]

My point is that there are far too many spells in D&D

I disagree. The more spells the better as far as I'm concerned

The spell I was suggesting actually works best with a magic system where you have to roll against a target number to suceed

As I mentioned before, I dont like success/failure magic systems in games. Especially not if theres still going to be spells that also require attack rolls and/or grant saving throws.

The idea is that the basic spell seed

Also not big on the basic spell seed idea.


I prefer systems with predefined spells, but where many of the spells have multiples options, and where the rules allow for altering and modifying the spells in various ways.

 

[Psion]

I prefer a system to have levels and point buy, but no classes. However, I don't know of any.

Um, Mutants & Masterminds, using PL?