D&D 5E Classes - Primary Stat Secondary Stat

[MechaTarrasque]

See, you say "Mental Resilience" and I immediately see/hear/say "Right, Intellgence." Your brain could handle it. You could rise above/reason past or around or out of the brain-melt. That's falls, textbook, into Int. for me. <br>
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Personality. General "Likeability" or (what would be the opposite of likeadbility?) "Infamy/Noteriety[?]." Persuasiveness. Outward Impression. And, if one wants to add it into their character's profile, general "attractiveness" and how that influences all of the aforementioned (since that whole "Comeliness" thing crashed and burned before 2e <img title="Wink" class="inlineimg" alt="" src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/wink.png" border="0" smilieid="5"> hahaha.) That's what I've come to understand [and separate it out from Int & Wis] the mental stat abstraction of Charisma.

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I think the justification for using charisma as a casting stat was that it was "strength of personality", which may or may not mean "force of will."  I think "not going crazy" is more a wisdom thing (which I tend to think of as "sees the 'true' mystical nature of reality"), but that brings up issues (clerics vs. warlocks, and the whole "warlock is doing something foolish" trope).  I have read too many Weird Tales type stories where the smart guy looks where he isn't supposed to and gets eaten (or worse), so I figure that if smart guys tend to make unsuccessful warlocks, successful warlocks must have something else going for them (although a case for good con, as opposed to cha, might work, as in if my body can support my mind to make a tough concentration save, it can help when looking the Queen of Air and Darkness).  I don't feel too strongly about it, though, as I think warlock is definitely a class that could be free of a primary stat (leaving that to subclasses).<br><br>If the goal is to get one or more classes out of the cha casting business, my vote is for sorcerers to be the arcane wisdom class (as sorcerers being attuned to magic fits the "sees the 'true' mystical nature of reality" idea really well).<br><br><br>

 

[jgsugden]

My thoughts on class design for the future of the game....

• Every character has a class, race, and background.
• Every class has both subclasses and role options.
• Subclasses would be fairly thematic (sort of like backgrounds are in 5e, but with a bit more meat on the bones), while roles would give characters more substantive abilities (like we see in subclasses in 5E).
• Every class would have one primary ability score.
• There would be five roles for each class - one tied to each of the none-primary ability scores for the class.
• Subclass abilities would either rely upon the prime attribute, would be attribute agnostic, or would have different versions that interact with each role.
• Example: Fighters (class) would be strength characters (primary ability score) and would have five available roles (Artillery - Dexterity, Brute - Constitution, Tactician - Wisdom, Strategist - Intelligence, Field General - Charisma. Then it would have subclasses that were more thematic (Gladiator, Soldier, Spellsword). Characters would also have backgrounds that are class agnostic like in 5E (Sailor, Acolyte, etc...) A fighter might elect to be a Field General / Gladiator / Acolyte with abilities triggering off of Strength and Charisma, or a Spellsword / Tactician / Sailor with Strength and Wisdom based abilities.
• Example: Wizards (class) would be intelligence characters (primary ability score) and would have five available roles (Warmage - Strength, Spellweavers - Dexterity, Lifeleech - Constitution, Balancers - Wisdom, Chaoswielders - Charisma). Subclasses might be Researchers, Battlewizards, etc... A wizard might be a Chaoswielding Battlewizard Sailor - a wizard that uses not just his intellect, but his force of will (charisma) to craft powerful magics in battle. Or he might be a Spellweaving Researcher Acolyte that specializes in magics that he can craft in fine detail, allowing him to sculpt out allies in blasts or alter a spell that impacts only humanoids so that it impacts animals instead.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

My thoughts on class design for the future of the game....

• Every character has a class, race, and background.
• Every class has both subclasses and role options.
• Subclasses would be fairly thematic (sort of like backgrounds are in 5e, but with a bit more meat on the bones), while roles would give characters more substantive abilities (like we see in subclasses in 5E).
• Every class would have one primary ability score.
• There would be five roles for each class - one tied to each of the none-primary ability scores for the class.
• Subclass abilities would either rely upon the prime attribute, would be attribute agnostic, or would have different versions that interact with each role.
• Example: Fighters (class) would be strength characters (primary ability score) and would have five available roles (Artillery - Dexterity, Brute - Constitution, Tactician - Wisdom, Strategist - Intelligence, Field General - Charisma. Then it would have subclasses that were more thematic (Gladiator, Soldier, Spellsword). Characters would also have backgrounds that are class agnostic like in 5E (Sailor, Acolyte, etc...) A fighter might elect to be a Field General / Gladiator / Acolyte with abilities triggering off of Strength and Charisma, or a Spellsword / Tactician / Sailor with Strength and Wisdom based abilities.
• Example: Wizards (class) would be intelligence characters (primary ability score) and would have five available roles (Warmage - Strength, Spellweavers - Dexterity, Lifeleech - Constitution, Balancers - Wisdom, Chaoswielders - Charisma). Subclasses might be Researchers, Battlewizards, etc... A wizard might be a Chaoswielding Battlewizard Sailor - a wizard that uses not just his intellect, but his force of will (charisma) to craft powerful magics in battle. Or he might be a Spellweaving Researcher Acolyte that specializes in magics that he can craft in fine detail, allowing him to sculpt out allies in blasts or alter a spell that impacts only humanoids so that it impacts animals instead.

Interesting idea, but would you also include the straight Wizard, whose primary is Intelligence and his secondary is Intelligence? He is just the stereotypical wizard. If yes then you are talking about 36 classes and subclasses in total.

Can you make them all distinct enough for people to care?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I do not like it when idiots try to be mages or weaklings try to be fighters, so I have always preferred a system that required a minimum in one primary stat to qualify for a class. But I never liked it when a class required two stats, or even worse, three. Though I could see assigning a secondary required stat to some sub-classes that would rely on it. I would do primary stat to be a minimum of 10, to show you would at least be average in that profession, and a secondary stat for a sub-class would be a minimum of 12, to show you have skill at it. And if I only went with a primary stat requirement, that would be 12, same as for multi-classing.

 

[Ratskinner]

Oh my.

I'd rather go the other way, and divorce classes from ability scores altogether - or maybe find some way to make all ability scores roughly equal in importance to any class.

So, like, give a fighter something that uses Intelligence, some other thing that uses Charisma, and make these things so that a fighter who pumps up his Intelligence and Charisma over Strength and Constitution is equally but differently as good as the stereotypical fighter.

And thus in doing so leave it up to each player to ppace his ability scores in whatever way fits his concept, without being constrained by the rules to play the stereotype.

Fate Accelerated switched from Attributes that describe the character to "Approaches" that describe the action. So, instead of a variant on D&D: they use Forceful, Clever, Sneaky, Quick, Careful, and Flashy. (Not saying those are the best or perfect choices for D&D).

The neat thing about it is that any of them could describe any class.

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