Cleave at the end of a charge....

[Hypersmurf]

I think this is a case where the DM shuold step in and say that the PC cannot attack b, instead he has to hit the goblin adjacent to a. I know the rules don;t sirectly say that, but it make much more sense for the concept and the spirit of the cleave.

What about the following?

PA_
_C_
_BP

C is the Cleaving character, A and B are goblins, and the Ps are the Cleaver's PC allies. By your 'concept and spirit' ruling, C is unable to use Cleave?

If the PC were charging with a lance, I would also only allow the cleave if the opponents were in line with eachother, otherwise it would not make sense. I know that this isn't stated, but in my opinion it fits much more.

And the rapier/dagger question? If the opponents are lined up :

CAB

... the Cleaver can't reach B with a rapier. If they're adjacent :

AB
_C

... then by your 'concept and spirit' ruling, it 'would not make sense' for the rapier to stab through one and into the next.

Is Cleave, then, worthless in your game for people with non-reach piercing weapons?

-Hyp.

 

[noretoc]

No, as I said it would be a decision where the dm steps in. In your first example, I would say that the pcs aren't close enough to get in the way. In the second, I would thing the pcs moved enough in his square and judged the right time where he can line up the opponents. I am not out to make it worthless, just to give it a semblance of sense. If I were to pierce the person in front of me, I don't see how killing him allows me to suddenly get an extra attack and stab the person behind me. If I didn't kill the first opponent, some how I am unable to make the same move. If I wanted to play a game, where only the rules written count, and I could do something like I would not play an RPG. That seems more like a computer game. In my Role-playing game, I want things to make sense. None of my players have a problem with it, and three have cleave. Not a single one thinks t is useless. They just try to put themselves in a better position to use it The is the kind of game I like to promote. Not one where I could run my lance through the man in front, and simply because he died, shift my momentum, and angle and stab the person to my rear right. That seems like a video game thing to me.

 

[reapersaurus]

Re: Re: Cleave and Flying Kick

You use the same attack bonus, not the same damage modifiers. Even the people who think the charge bonus should apply to the Cleave attack are unlikely to argue that the double damage should apply as well

If you consider the Cleave "part of a charge attack", than it certainly would get double damage...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Cleave and Flying Kick

If you consider the Cleave "part of a charge attack"...

Why on earth would you do that?

-Hyp.

 

[Archer]

If the attacker had the pounce ability and could full attack after a charge wouldn't you give the +2 on every attack and double damage if power lunge was applied? Why are the extra attacks granted by cleave different than attacks granted by pounce?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the attacker had the pounce ability and could full attack after a charge wouldn't you give the +2 on every attack and double damage if power lunge was applied? Why are the extra attacks granted by cleave different than attacks granted by pounce?

Well, by my reading, pounce allows a full attack after a move action, not a full attack with a charge. So it's not an issue.

-Hyp.

 

[melkoriii]

From SRD

Cleave [General]
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack.
Benefit: If the character deals a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points, killing it, etc.), the character gets an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature in the immediate vicinity. The character cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. The character can use this ability once per round.

interesting.

By this text, all bonuses are added. Even ones to Damage as it says “at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature”.

Now double damage may not be a bonus but Smite damage would.

The feat does not come up in use that often so I see no problem letting this happen.


Nothing in this text says it can not be used at the end of a charge or off a AoO. Its just like Sneak Attack. If the condition is met, then the cleave happens.

Does not say it takes a standard action or an attack action or a partial action like other feats that restricted were they can be used.

 

[Stalker0]

I think you guys are debating the wrong issue here. I don't think cleaving is allowed on a charge at all.

PHP: pg 124 charge section: "After moving, you may make a single melee attack....Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge."

And as has already been pointed out, cleave allows an EXTRA melee attack. This would count as an extra attack for above, and wouldn't be allowed.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By this text, all bonuses are added.

All bonuses to the attack. Not bonuses to damage.

-Hyp.

 

[melkoriii]

All bonuses to the attack. Not bonuses to damage.

-Hyp.

No

At the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature.