Cleave question (AoO)

[Mystery Man]

This may have been asked before but since the search function is disabled..

Can you cleave after an AoO? Privided the conditions are right for a cleave naturally.

 

[dcollins]

Yes.
But, some people don't like it and house rule a prohibition of it.

I believe this was asked, like, yesterday or something.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71781

 

[Mystery Man]

I kind of thought that you could.

But, some people don't like it and house rule a prohibition of it.

Makes sense to me so I see no reason to not let it in.

 

[mikebr99]

I also agree that you can Cleave (or great Cleave) off of a fallen oponent as a result of an AoO.

But I'm sure this will be a multi-pager very soon...

YMMV


Mike

 

[jgsugden]

By the rules, yes, but this can cause problems.

I've seen an orc chief with combat reflexes begin to cut down his orc minions with AoOs as they passed by because the invisible enemy barbarian/rogue (with combat reflexes and great cleave) was getting to cleave into him every time one of his minions passed by him and into the swatting range of the spiked chain wielding invisible rogue.

If you think this is a problem, I've seen a few house rules that deal with the issue:

1.) No cleaving off an AoO.

2.) No cleaving off an AoO, but if you fell someone on an AoO, you gain a bonus AoO to be used before your next turn (effectively allowing you to 'cleave' into someone else that is also provoking an AoO). (Note: For those people that see the round based system as an abstraction and prefer to think of combat as everything happenning in real time, this rule makes sense. To others, it is just weird.)

3.) Cleaving off an AoO is ok, but you may only cleave into a particular target 1/rd.

4.) Every time you cleave into something, you must stand up and scream "CROM!!!!!" If it is during your AoO, you must instead leap to your feet and sing a Tom Jones tune with an accent of your choice (selecting a different song and accent for each cleave).

I use #2. Well, I use #2 most of the time, but every once in a while #4 slips into the game.

 

[Mystery Man]

I've seen an orc chief with combat reflexes begin to cut down his orc minions with AoOs as they passed by because the invisible enemy barbarian/rogue (with combat reflexes and great cleave) was getting to cleave into him every time one of his minions passed by him and into the swatting range of the spiked chain wielding invisible rogue.

I can't think of a single time thing would ever get that out of hand for this to ever happen!

4.) Every time you cleave into something, you must stand up and scream "CROM!!!!!" If it is during your AoO, you must instead leap to your feet and sing a Tom Jones tune with an accent of your choice (selecting a different song and accent for each cleave).

This is a great idea, but I run a Realms game so it will have to be "By the stinking ___ of Tempus!" or some such.

 

[Hypersmurf]

4.) Every time you cleave into something, you must stand up and scream "CROM!!!!!" If it is during your AoO, you must instead leap to your feet and sing a Tom Jones tune with an accent of your choice (selecting a different song and accent for each cleave).

It's the weirdest thing. Tom Jones has a musical career spanning decades, and yet every time he makes a cameo on a TV show, movie, charity concert, etc, etc, he always sings the same song!

It doesn't matter what you're watching... if Tom Jones appears, you know that any moment now, the brass intro to It's Not Unusual will kick in...

-Hyp.

 

[Len]

And didn't every one of us think "It's not unusual to be cleaved by anyone" when we read that rule.

 

[jgsugden]

I can't think of a single time thing would ever get that out of hand for this to ever happen!

It depends upon the style of game.

Picture an improved invisible (or blinking) rogue (or a fighter that has power attacked) with a spiked chain (or polymorphed into a large size creature), combat reflexes (with a high dexterity) and great cleave. Then picture a dungeon where the bad guy has minions (creatures with 15 hps or less) running around (servants, low level guards, fodder, etc ....). In that style of game, the big baddies need to stay away from their minions because those minions may get them killed.

That PC might get 40 attacks in a round, almost all at a full AB.

Does this happen in every game? No. But in a few games, the situations creating this problem are a very common occurence. In those games, the DM has to either make the battle more difficult when minions are present (ie; the more minions you add, the tougher the BBEG must be), change the rule with a house rule or alter his campaign to avoid using minions.

Should a DM wait until it is a problem to consider changing the rule? Probably not. If a PC builds a character specifically to take advantage of this type of rule abuse, they'll probably resent having their entire character concept nerfed deep into the game. You might say that the player is getting what he deserves, but having a frustrated and angry player is not going to help anyone. This is a situation where you want to either deal with the problem or accept that it may be abused before anyone takes advantage of it.

 

[jgsugden]

And didn't every one of us think "It's not unusual to be cleaved by anyone" when we read that rule.

Also on the best of album:
"You'll Never Fall Apart Again"
"Shave a Lady" and ...
"What's new, Cuisinart? Whoa-oh-ah-oh-ah-oh"