Cleric Variant: One with bonus feats

[kirinke]

Well. Just a varient like I said and preventing them from using scrolls would cripple the class. So scroll use is ok.

 

[Nifft]

Well. Just a varient like I said and preventing them from using scrolls would cripple the class. So scroll use is ok.

Er... scrolls of those spells. Only those spells.

-- N

 

[Sir Brennen]

Er... scrolls of those spells. Only those spells.

If those spells are removed from the cleric's spell list, then according to the RAW on scrolls, they couldn't use them anyway. So it all works out

If you go the way of removing those spells, I would remove them all, not just let the characters pick a couple, cuz they'll probably just select the lower level ones, anyway.

One thing I would comment on this variant - move the Brew Potion feat to 2nd level (at least) to keep them from being too front loaded (spells, turning, domain abilities, brew potion - all at 1st level!) In fact, IMC, I'm using variant turning rules which spread out the number of turn attempts per day across several levels.

One thing I've also done is removed Heavy Armor prof. from clerics - this at least scales back their Tank replacement role a bit, without removing the self-buff spells mentioned.

I would definitely add the Divine Feats from the Complete ... books to the list of bonus feats they can choose from.

And just as a personal thing, I would make the first bonus feat Scribe Scroll, since the copying of holy texts is a common practice associated with religious persons. Brew Potion is something I would probably give a sorcerer or warlock (or witch, if one used any of the third party takes on this class.)

Whatever you do, you do need to remove something to balance this variant out. Your own opinion states that they're already at least as good as other classes - so giving them these bonus feats will definitely make them better.

 

[kirinke]

One of the reasons why I posted this varient is I love feats.
The removing of the heavy armour proficiency is a good idea. I think that the heavy armour thing should be reserved for the fighter classes. Clerics need to be mobile and heavy armour tends to slow things down a bit, especially when they need to duck into melee and heal a fellow combatant. Personally, when I play a cleric, I rarely use heavy armour. Too clunky.


Bonus Feats.
At first level, the cleric gains the ability to turn or rebuke undead as well as scribe scrolls. At third level, the cleric gains the ability to brew potions.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a cleric gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. The Cleric must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels.
The Cleric is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or Spell Mastery when choosing these feats.

The cleric is proficient with all simple weapons and all armours save heavy armours. She is also proficient with all shields save tower shields.

The cleric can no longer cast the following spells from memory or cast them from scrolls. (I kept the magic weapon/greater magic weapon. That was a bit much)
- Divine Favor
- Aid
- Divine Power
- Righteous Might
- Prayer
- Doom

 

[XeviatTranion]

I've altered my cleric for my games heavily, but not in this direction. What the druid has in special abilities, the cleric makes up for in domains. So I worked on their domains more.

My cleric lost the ability to turn/rebuke undead, and lost the ability to spontaniously cast cure/inflict spells. They also lost their +1 spell slot for domain spells. In return, I gave them a spirit companion (an "animal companion" of sort that has a planar template and is summonable for 2 hours/day/level 1/day, like a paladin's mount) at first level, and then I changed the domain powers. Clerics can spontaniously convert a prepared spell into a domain spell of equal or lower level. Turn Undead became the ability of the Sun domain, and Rebuke of death. Healing's ability is now lay on hands, Destruction's ability is the opposite of lay on hands (with a will save DC 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha for half). Plants is rebuke plants, animals is rebuke animals, and the alignment domains are rebuke same alignment subtype, turn opposite alignment subtype. I'm still working on changing a number of the others, so they all have some tie with Charisma.

This has made all Clerics very different from each other, making their domain spell choices more important.

 

[kirinke]

I like that idea Tran. Nice flavor to it. So anyone else have any ideas on good clerical variants?

 

[Sravoff]

I've altered my cleric for my games heavily, but not in this direction. What the druid has in special abilities, the cleric makes up for in domains. So I worked on their domains more.

My cleric lost the ability to turn/rebuke undead, and lost the ability to spontaniously cast cure/inflict spells. They also lost their +1 spell slot for domain spells. In return, I gave them a spirit companion (an "animal companion" of sort that has a planar template and is summonable for 2 hours/day/level 1/day, like a paladin's mount) at first level, and then I changed the domain powers. Clerics can spontaniously convert a prepared spell into a domain spell of equal or lower level. Turn Undead became the ability of the Sun domain, and Rebuke of death. Healing's ability is now lay on hands, Destruction's ability is the opposite of lay on hands (with a will save DC 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha for half). Plants is rebuke plants, animals is rebuke animals, and the alignment domains are rebuke same alignment subtype, turn opposite alignment subtype. I'm still working on changing a number of the others, so they all have some tie with Charisma.

This has made all Clerics very different from each other, making their domain spell choices more important.

Wow.....THAT is a rad variant. Consider it yoinked.

 

[Hodgie]

Xeviat: Doesn't that make the healing domain REALLY good? In essence you have a core cleric who swaps turn undead for lay on hands and swaps 1 spell per spell level for the ability to spontaneous both cure and another list of spells. Then gets another domain power.

If they took Sun and Healing they are a core cleric who loses a spell/spell level and gains an animal spirit and lay on hands and may spontaneous the Sun domain in addition to Healing.

I like the spirit of the variant, but unless I am missing something it seems like you empowered clerics quite a bit.

 

[Nifft]

If those spells are removed from the cleric's spell list, then according to the RAW on scrolls, they couldn't use them anyway. So it all works out

You are correct... and in fact that was what I said originally. However here's the phrasing that was actually used by the class author:

Once they give up this spell, they will no longer be able to request it from their deity.

-- N

 

[XeviatTranion]

Xeviat: Doesn't that make the healing domain REALLY good? In essence you have a core cleric who swaps turn undead for lay on hands and swaps 1 spell per spell level for the ability to spontaneous both cure and another list of spells. Then gets another domain power.

If they took Sun and Healing they are a core cleric who loses a spell/spell level and gains an animal spirit and lay on hands and may spontaneous the Sun domain in addition to Healing.

I like the spirit of the variant, but unless I am missing something it seems like you empowered clerics quite a bit.

A cleric in my game with sun and healing, when compared to a standard cleric with sun and healing, looses 1 spell per day per level, looses the +1 hp of healing with each healing spell (though that's not much), and looses greater turning, but gains several more spells which they can spontaniously cast and lay on hands. My cleric also has less armor proficiencies, more skill points, and a lower HD.

I don't think it makes healing powerful, just admirable. Now PC clerics actually consider healing.