Clerics need a wis of 20.

[phil500]

Below are details supporting the thread title. The real question is, if you agree, does this the fact that clers "should" have a 20 wis, or that wizards "should" have a 20 int concern you?

From the limited information avail. through the 2 pregen chars, its obvious a cleric is as good as his wisdom. Cha matters, sure, but all their powers come down to wisdom.

Sacred flame is a good staple. Guess what? No temporary hp on a miss. Healing strike is a good encounter power that lets an ally spend a surge, as well as doing damage. It increases the clerics healing options from 2 to 3, although not on a miss.

 

[Mort_Q]

I'm not sure we are using the same definitions of the words need and should.

A character would benefit from 20s in all their stats, especially their primaries.

It's not very mysterious.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

No more than a 3e cleric or wizard should max out their WIS or INT.

And given how expensive the last +1 is, I'd say there is plenty of incentive to stop at 16 or 18. The cleric is still a combattant, you may want to save for a decent STR and CON. Wizard are more likely to be willing to pay through the nose for the max INT but there are several build were that might not be the case (Multiclassing, battle mage, specific feat selection etc).

 

[Cadfan]

Below are details supporting the thread title. The real question is, if you agree, does this the fact that clers "should" have a 20 wis, or that wizards "should" have a 20 int concern you?

1. No.
2. While hitting is important, it is not the only thing which is important.
3. Most importantly, this is highly dependant on the ability score generation method you use.
3a. If you roll for stats, you might not roll any 18s.
3b. If you use an array, there's no 18 on the default array for you to improve to a 20.
3c. If you use pointbuy, feel free to buy an 18. While you're spending ungodly amounts of points purchasing that 18, I'll purchase a 16. You will have a +1 attack and damage advantage on me, and I will have, well, a lot of stuff. If 4e point buy is the same as 3e point buy, I'll have 6 points to spend wherever I choose. +2 in a primary stat is valuable, but in a point buy system it isn't being weighed against +2 in a secondary stat. Its being weighed against something like +6 in a secondary stat.

 

[Rechan]

In 4e you get +1 to two stats every 4 levels (also at 11 and 12, I believe). I don't think a mad rush at the very beginning is overly necessary, unless you want to be just devastating.

 

[sunbear]

I have done 3 encounters so far with KotS and the cleric has a very hard time making a difference in combat (outside his Healing Words). He really needs some sort of proficiency bonus or something.

 

[Cadfan]

Remember, the cleric supports his allies. If he gives a +2 bonus to hit to an ally, and the ally hits by 2, really that was the cleric's hit. Likewise, if he gives out 20 temp hp during a fight, and that temp hp gets used up, that's as good or better than having healed 20 hp.

 

[phil500]

No more than a 3e cleric should max out their WIS

yes more, see below

Remember, the cleric supports his allies. If he gives a +2 bonus to hit to an ally, and the ally hits by 2, really that was the cleric's hit. Likewise, if he gives out 20 temp hp during a fight, and that temp hp gets used up, that's as good or better than having healed 20 hp.

exactly my point- both of the effects you mention are from the "hit" effect of cleric spells.

that is, even buffs rely on wisdom now, not just "offensive" cleric spells.

I have done 3 encounters so far with KotS and the cleric has a very hard time making a difference in combat (outside his Healing Words). He really needs some sort of proficiency bonus or something.

Yeah, this has been my experience too. I think they tried to make clerics more interesting with 2 changes:

1) making healing a minor action- great change.

2) making buffs a secondary effect of an attack- again a good change in that you no longer need to choose between damaging an enemy or helping an ally.

the thing with number 2 is that now clerics need to hit enemies in order to buff. along with the decreased contribution of CON to HP, i think its pretty obvious that buying up the max WIS is the way to roll.

 

[Aristeas]

The 3e cleric got quite a lot of benefit out of a Wis of 20, sure. +2 Wis meant a 5% better chance of an enemy failing a saving throw (for those spells with saves) and a bonus spell or two. Casters always wanted higher primary attributes, and they were substantially more valuable than increasing any other attribute.

The 4e cleric should be much more enthusiastic about a +2 Wis. In virtually every round of every combat, he will have cause to check his Wisdom score, generally at least twice (on attack roll and damage). A +2 Wis is vastly, almost absurdly, better than a +2 to anything else. I assume that's what the OP is getting at.

Obviously he doesn't need a 20 Wisdom, but it's in the same way a 3e two-handed fighter doesn't need power attack or a druid doesn't need Natural Spellcasting- any of them who are even a tiny bit Gamist will take it every single time.

 

[Cadfan]

along with the decreased contribution of CON to HP, i think its pretty obvious that buying up the max WIS is the way to roll.

Assume that point buy works as follows: Set 5 stats to 10, and one stat to 8. It costs 1 per stat point to raise a power each step up to 12. It costs 2 for 13 and 14. It costs 3 for 15 and 16. It costs 4 for 17 and 18.

You have 25 points to spend, and you may add a racial +2 to wisdom, because you're playing a Human.

Buying an 18 will cost you 20 of your 25 points. Buying a 16 would have only cost you 12.

Getting a 20 wisdom is nice. That's why it costs a whole freaking lot.