D&D 5E Clerics Without Cantrips

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[prabe]

Eh, it's like the bag of rats, or anything else.

Play with people that are about having a good time, and these theoretical problems rarely arise. IME. But maybe I've just been lucky.

I've been lucky in that way, too, but these sorts of things are a large part of the reason I can't be bothered with AL (or other league-type play).

 

[Uller]

I wish they had not made any damaging cantrips or limited them to types that don't circumvent certain damage resistances or regeneration. Too often low level parties find ways around what should make a monster scary with a cantrip they can use without limit.

I had a low level party meet a vampire spawn. Sacred Flame took it from somewhat frightening to hohum. Same with a troll and firebolt. In both cases it wasn't metagaming...it was the caster using their go to damage cantrip.

 

[Ambush]

I wish they had not made any damaging cantrips or limited them to types that don't circumvent certain damage resistances or regeneration. Too often low level parties find ways around what should make a monster scary with a cantrip they can use without limit.

I had a low level party meet a vampire spawn. Sacred Flame took it from somewhat frightening to hohum. Same with a troll and firebolt. In both cases it wasn't metagaming...it was the caster using their go to damage cantrip.

Can't agree with you here. The worst thing ever was having a wizard/sorcerer running around with a crossbow for when they ran out of spells. Sure, there are certain situations where stuff happens (like the troll/firebolt combo) but honestly, with the Spawn's DEX save, I'm surprised that a low level caster was hitting all that often.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think damage cantrips lost their way when they started scaling with level. I agree with @Ambush that they are important for low level casters, and they are an elegant solution for wizards having to carry crossbows around at lower levels. But eventually, they are expected to hang up that crossbow and move on to bigger and better things...but instead, they get better crossbows.

 

[toucanbuzz]

And yet, clerics have no trouble using it every round, for every action, on every occasion, over and over and over again. It drives me crazy.

I have a newer player and while I don't think she acts maliciously, EVERY time the party is going to do something, Guidance comes up.

Back on topic and away from my rant of how I dislike this spell, the proposed Cantrip replacements have a pretty solid impact, which may simply be solved by limiting Cantrips per day.

 

[Ambush]

Back on topic and away from my rant of how I dislike this spell, the proposed Cantrip replacements have a pretty solid impact, which may simply be solved by limiting Cantrips per day.

I can't see how this doesn't completely recreate the wizards with crossbows problem. I'd rather see a way to disincentivize repeated castings than what equates to telling a fighter they can only swing their sword so many times in a day. Hell, the simplest fix for guidance might be to add "A creature can only benefit from this cantrip once per minute (or 10m or 1h)".

 

[Uller]

My solution with guidance if it gets spammed is just give the cleric player a big bright d4. They pass it around as desired and can say something RP likeif they want, or not. The players roll it with their roll. I am untroubled by it. 9 times out of 10 if I am allowing a check I WANT them to pass it or at least have a good chance.

 

[Ambush]

I think damage cantrips lost their way when they started scaling with level. I agree with @Ambush that they are important for low level casters, and they are an elegant solution for wizards having to carry crossbows around at lower levels. But eventually, they are expected to hang up that crossbow and move on to bigger and better things...but instead, they get better crossbows.

Ultimately, the goal is trying to balance things out between the classes. Perhaps the balance is out of alignment, but I don't think it's as far off as people are suggesting. Martial classes get better weapons/armor/etc that do all manner of crazy things, and some/most get extra attacks each round. But the suggestion that an arcane class should not be able to do an arcane thing all the time is fundamentally flawed in making a player feel like their character is what they're supposed to be.

 

[toucanbuzz]

My solution with guidance if it gets spammed is just give the cleric player a big bright d4....I am untroubled by it. 9 times out of 10 if I am allowing a check I WANT them to pass it or at least have a good chance.

My beef is that guidance breaks my immersion in the game.

Tension is high. The orcs are closing in and the rogue nervously looks at the locked temple portal, knowing one wrong move triggers the arcane rune and spells doom. He pulls out his lucky pick, gives it a kiss....and then the cleric interrupts..."wait, wait, before you do that...you need some sweet, loving, guidance." The cleric then gives the rogue an encouraging pat on the ass, says "go team," and steps back into the shadows, lurking until their chance to charge in and give someone some good ole fashioned guidance comes up.

A few moments later, the lock is picked and the party is into the temple, but the orcs are upon them. The sorcerer steps forward, eyes blazing, looming larger with each step. He prepares to warn the orcs that if they cross the threshold of the temple portal, ashes and doom of the dragon god await them! ...and then the cleric creepily lunges out of the shadows, hand poised on the sorcerer's ass. "Wait a sec, before you do that...oh before you do that...you need...some tasty, succulent, guidance." One slap on the butt later, he returns to the shadows, to stalk his prey for the chance to cast this boost over and over and over.

But back on track, I like the idea of something more cleric-y. If we're implementing substitutes for cantrips, design consideration needs to be had on whether those substitutes should be unlimited in use as well.