D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

In a good many cases - it still is. The game still suggests making checks for forcing open stuck doors, disabling traps, performing a song, forging documents - anything in which the resolution isn't an obvious yes or no under the current circumstances. Is swimming 21 miles through cold, open sea water with armor and a full kit of gear an obvious success or failure? Does it become more or less obvious if the weather is clear and the seas are calm? More or less obvious if it's after dark and the wind is up? How about during a storm? Does it become more or less obvious if you drop your gear and doff your armor?

The major change from 3e to 5e is for the DM to make obvious resolutions without a check. But it leaves a lot more up to individual DM judgment about what's obvious rather than give the DM a bunch of modifiers to apply to the end DC of the check.
That a check seems appropriate is fairly easy to see and we might all even agree on which ability and proficiency may apply, but without all the surrounding details, it's difficult to determine an appropriate DC or whether the character has advantage or disadvantage.
 

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That a check seems appropriate is fairly easy to see and even agree on which ability and proficiency may apply, but without all the surrounding details, it's difficult to determine an appropriate DC or whether the character has advantage or disadvantage.
Sure. Personally, I'd set the DC relatively low for a good weather and sea day without gear/armor - kind of the optimal conditions. Bad weather, I'd set the DC higher and compounding factors would accumulate. And I'd totally inflict disadvantage for trying to go that distance in full gear/armor - going at least 21 miles (it's usually more thanks to currents) in that at a swim is just nutty or desperate.
 

I disagree with that. There's nothing in the rules that prevents the DM from determining anything might cause the climb to be more difficult. The height of the climb and the duration of the climb are all perfectly valid factors.

The fact that a short climb might not require a check doesn't render a mile long climb suddenly automatic. You don't need to determine an exact length where the cutoff from "no check" to "check" is to understand that a cutoff exists. That determination will primarily be made based on whether or not you think the scene requires the influx of tension.
This is the way.
 

We’ve all been so conditioned by 3.Xe to assume that goal = check and to invent the approach and consequences retroactively that many of us can’t even conceive of another way of doing things. It takes some major deprogramming to make someone who has been accustomed to the 3.Xe way of doing things receptive to the 5e way. Especially if they’re accustomed to playing 5e the 3.Xe way.
I've played every version and adapted along the way. So dont assume its because we "can't" conceive otherwise.

I would not require a check for normal rope climbing up a wall. I understand the ethos of not requiring checks for things that have no risk and plenty of time to accomplish.

I would require a check to swim across the English Channel even in good weather, cause we all know...not every one can do it, its a heroic feat.

(of course you could say the risk lies in the drowning)
 

By all means, fill in any information gaps needed. I would like to know what a 5e ruling to swim across the English Channel looks like. I have absolutely no idea at this point.
That question can’t be answered in the absence of further context. In 5e, you call for a check when a PC’s action has a chance of success, a chance of failure, and a cost or consequence for failure, and you use that context to determine what check is appropriate and what the DC could be. “Swimming across the English Channel” doesn’t have a static DC, nor does any task. To resolve the action, one needs to know the player’s goal, what their character is doing to try and achieve that goal, and what the consequences might be for failing to achieve that goal.

Trying my best to use your example, winning the princess’s hand in marriage seems to be more of a long-term quest objective, rather than the immediate goal of the action. The goal indeed seems to be to reach the opposite side of the channel, and the approach seems to be swimming across it. Now, resolving this action is going to take some DM judgment. Do you think the approach of swimming across has a reasonable chance of succeeding in achieving the goal of reaching the other side of the English Channel? Personally, I’d say it seems... possible... but not if the character is wearing metal armor, and extremely difficult in any event. It definitely has a chance of failing.

What might the consequences be for failure? You could just say they drown if they fail, but that only seems likely to insure the players decide not to even attempt such a task. Since the long-term objective seems to be to marry the princess, and she might marry the brother if they fail, I’ll make the assumption that the player is trying to reach the other side to stop the wedding to the evil brother. In this case, time might be an appropriate stake, and failure could mean progress with a setback - you make it across the channel alive, but not in time to stop the wedding.

So let’s say the wedding to the evil brother is going to happen in 24 hours. At its narrowest point, the English Channel is 21 miles across. In overland travel, characters can cover 3 miles per hour at a normal pace, 4 miles per hour at a fast pace, or 2 miles per hour at a slow pace (and we’ll be dividing those numbers in half since swimming costs twice the normal amount of movement). Let’s assume the player doesn’t care about moving stealthily and isn’t worried about being ambushed on the journey, so they take a fast pace. That would mean they could cover the 31 miles in 15.5 hours. Plenty of time to make it to the wedding, unless the waters are rough, in which case you need to succeed on a Strength (Athletics) check to make progress. But, checking your example, you said average waves, no wind, no rain, so that doesn’t seem necessary. The character can make it across in 15 hours.

Also, just noticing you also said no time limit, so I guess my stop the marriage scenario doesn’t actually work. But it was still an interesting thought experiment, so I’ll leave it in. At any rate, we’ve established that with no time limit and no complicating factors such as rough water, a Strength (Athletics) check is not needed to make progress. But also remember that traveling for more than 8 hours in a day constitutes a forced march.

With a Forced March requiring a Constitution saving throw for each hour of travel beyond 8, the character is going to need to make 7 constitution saving throws. Also, the DC starts at 10 and increases by 5 each time. And on a failure the character gains a level of exhaustion. Depending on the character’s modifier, they’re likely to reach the point where the DC is higher than they can possibly roll after maybe 3 or 4 hours. So this character is taking at least 3 or 4 levels of exhaustion, and needs to make 3 or 4 Con saves at DCs 10, 15, 20, and maybe 25, taking an additional level of exhaustion for each failure (resulting in death if they fail 2 or 3 times).
 

Also, just noticing you also said no time limit, so I guess my stop the marriage scenario doesn’t actually work. But it was still an interesting thought experiment, so I’ll leave it in. At any rate, we’ve established that with no time limit and no complicating factors such as rough water, a Strength (Athletics) check is not needed to make progress. But also remember that traveling for more than 8 hours in a day constitutes a forced march.

With a Forced March requiring a Constitution saving throw for each hour of travel beyond 8, the character is going to need to make 7 constitution saving throws. Also, the DC starts at 10 and increases by 5 each time. And on a failure the character gains a level of exhaustion. Depending on the character’s modifier, they’re likely to reach the point where the DC is higher than they can possibly roll after maybe 3 or 4 hours. So this character is taking at least 3 or 4 levels of exhaustion, and needs to make 3 or 4 Con saves at DCs 10, 15, 20, and maybe 25, taking a level of exhaustion for each failure (resulting in death if they fail 2 or 3 times).
Ah, there. Thank you. So, it's possibly a death sentence to attempt to cross the channel, and this is assuming good weather. Especially by the end when exhaustion compounds rolls.
 

I've played every version and adapted along the way. So dont assume its because we "can't" conceive otherwise.
I didn’t say every single person who has ever played 3e can’t conceive of another way of running the game. If you don’t have that problem, you’re not in the group of people I was referring to.
 

Ah, there. Thank you. So, it's possibly a death sentence to attempt to cross the channel, and this is assuming good weather. Especially by the end when exhaustion compounds rolls.
Yeah. Though, frankly, I don’t think I would have arrived at that ruling at the actual game table. That took me several minutes of pondering, where I think in the moment I would have more likely gone with a quick and dirty “progress with a setback” ruling that on a failure you don’t cross in time to stop the wedding.
 


By all means, fill in any information gaps needed. I would like to know what a 5e ruling to swim across the English Channel looks like. I have absolutely no idea at this point.
To be honest, I don't really want to fill in details. Examples are problematic in forum discussions and shouldn't actually be needed since we all have reference to a common source - the rules themselves. Examples tend to just be ways for people to easily disagree on the specifics of the example while losing the broader point.

The details you gave don't really say what happens to the character as a result of failure. Does he drown and that's why the princess marries his brother instead? Does it mean his brother is also swimming the channel and the first one to make it wins the hand of the princess? Because that implies a time pressure you say doesn't exist. What reasonably specific approach to swimming the channel did the player actually describe?

Ultimately, what this looks like is a test of the character's ability to push himself past his normal limits. Twenty-one miles of swimming is, from a rules standpoint, something on par to a forced march in difficult terrain. So that's a good reference point in my view for the DC of the Constitution check. But again, we're missing information we might otherwise have at the table to determine this fairly.
 

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