D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

[Xetheral]

I disagree. In the example the OP brought up, there was specifically no time pressure, so the only potential consequence was fall damage. I suppose you could argue that’s a potential source of tension, but at best it’s a static source, and I think the gameplay outcome of insisting on a check to avoid it is a pretty dull one. Yeah, it’s a long climb, but you’ve got a knotted rope and a wall to brace against. That doesn’t feel tense, and adding the possibility of falling and taking damage doesn’t really make it tense. It just makes it annoying.

To clarify, I am saying that the tension does come from the danger of taking 80' worth of falling damage. I agree that once the characters decide to use a rope to make the climb, the tension goes away--it's been successfully resolved by the players' chosen approach because they've made avoiding the consequences of failure easy to do.

Sure, I agree with that.

I think the key is not just tension but dynamic tension

No, simply adding high wind doesn’t make the scene significantly more tense. Maybe a little bit, but mostly it just makes the not-particularly-tense check feel a bit more justified in the fiction.

Instead of thinking about it in terms of the difficulty of the climb itself and whether or not a check should be required to complete it (static tension), I think it’s better to set up encounters where the situation evolves in response to the characters’ actions (dynamic tension). Add a ticking clock, or a guard patrol. Have the wind pick up as the characters are climbing. Set up a scene where things happen that the players can respond to, rather than just a static obstacle.

I agree that upping the consequences for failure to successfully make the climb with time pressure (if they fail they won't have time to try another approach) or a guard patrol (if they fail they'll face an encounter) does indeed increase the tension. I don't see how adding wind pick up after they start climbing adds to the tension though: it can't affect the consequences of failure, it only changes the likelihood of success. (And since the on-the-fly change in the likelihood of success was unavoidable by the players, there is no tension from choosing to accept the heightened risk.)

 

[Rabulias]

There is a 5e product I showed my players recently, I don't think they actually looked at it yet, but it's called 5e Options and the Skill chapter is 30 pages long, and it really makes 5e feel more like 3e by vastly expanding on the skill descriptions.

I would be interested in taking a look at this. Do you have a DM's Guild link or a publisher name, perhaps? Using "5e Options" as a search term gives far too many results. :-/

 

[Nebulous]

I would be interested in taking a look at this. Do you have a DM's Guild link or a publisher name, perhaps? Using "5e Options" as a search term gives far too many results. :-/

Fifth Edition Options - TPK Games

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

The Dash action is something specific to combat. Out of combat you could take a Fast pace, which would allow you to climb 3000 feet in 15 minutes. Which certainly does blow the record out of the water! Though, that video looked like a series of shorter climbs, all of them on what I would describe as sheer surfaces with few hand and footholds, punctuated by breaks on sizable outcroppings.

Which goes to show you how well this game deals with climbing. The typical climber takes 3-5 days to climb El Capitain. Doing it in around 2 hours is epic. Doing in less time is unrealistic.

I wouldn't say 'sheer'. They were ascending lots of cracks which provide pretty good holds. Having never climbed it, I can't say for sure. There was one neat part where one guy climbs to a ledge, drops a rope, the other guy swings across a huge gap of (unclimbable area?), to the next part of the climb, climbs higher than the first guy. He then belays the first guy who swings across the same gap and continues.

Depending on what route you climb, the (googling), pitches range from 5.8 (DC 5 to 8) to 5.13a(around dc 25ish) 5.13 could include a sheer section.

As far as 'shorter climbs' go, It's done in pitches. So, you set up, climb your pitch while your partner belays, then you belay for your partner, gather your stuff and do the next pitch. It looks like These guys were soloing parts of the ascent.

 

[iserith]

Make-believe is a big component of this game. So, make believe. It's important to consider whether one is subordinating fantasy to reality and if this has a beneficial impact on a game driven by imagination. I'll never make arguments about reality when discussing the rules. It's not a solid place from which to argue in this context as I see it.

 

[Xetheral]

Make-believe is a big component of this game. So, make believe. It's important to consider whether one is subordinating fantasy to reality and if this has a beneficial impact on a game driven by imagination.

Well said. I entirely agree, even though I suspect we would reach different conclusions on what has a beneficial impact on our individual games.

 

[Xetheral]

I'll never make arguments about reality when discussing the rules. It's not a solid place from which to argue in this context as I see it.

Looks like you edited to add this while I was responding. The rules are a tool for resolving actions in a fantasy world. How much one prefers that fantasy world to resemble reality is, of course, a matter of taste. But when discussing how the rules resolve actions that are similar to actions in our own world, I think reality is indeed valuable context while considering how the details of the rules are interpreted.

I'm totally fine if you want to put less weight on reality as an interpretive aid than I do. But how much weight to put on it is a value judgement, and I'm also totally fine with those who prefer to put more weight on reality as an interpretive aid than I do.

 

[iserith]

I'm totally fine if you want to put less weight on reality as an interpretive aid than I do. But how much weight to put on it is a value judgement, and I'm also totally fine with those who prefer to put more weight on reality as an interpretive aid than I do.

Yeah, I don't care if other people do that either. I do find it funny when it's used as an argument to support or refute game rules though. It reminds me of the scene in an old Simpsons episode when an Itchy & Scratchy fan is giving Homer a hard time about how when Itchy is playing Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone and two notes come out of the same bone. "I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder."

 

[Xetheral]

Yeah, I don't care if other people do that either. I do find it funny when it's used as an argument to support or refute game rules though. It reminds me of the scene in an old Simpsons episode when an Itchy & Scratchy fan is giving Homer a hard time about how when Itchy is playing Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone and two notes come out of the same bone. "I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder."

I'm not familiar with that episode. That is indeed funny.

Admittedly, I find the opposite end of the spectrum just as amusing, such as (in previous editions) the infamous "the rules don't say I can't take actions when I'm dead, so a DM who refuses to let me act while dead is violating the rules."

When it comes to climbing (and now swimming) I can easily see how various interpretations can be viewed at either end of the spectrum. On the one hand people are arguing that the silence of the rules on the question of how long one can easily climb or swim means the only limits are the daily travel limits. On the other hand, people are arguing over the appropriate chance to fail to climb a knotted rope in a game where magic can make people fly or teleport.

 

[iserith]

I'm not familiar with that episode. That is indeed funny.

Admittedly, I find the opposite end of the spectrum just as amusing, such as (in previous editions) the infamous "the rules don't say I can't take actions when I'm dead, so a DM who refuses to let me act while dead is violating the rules."

When it comes to climbing (and now swimming) I can easily see how various interpretations can be viewed at either end of the spectrum. On the one hand people are arguing that the silence of the rules on the question of how long one can easily climb or swim means the only limits are the daily travel limits. On the other hand, people are arguing over the appropriate chance to fail to climb a knotted rope in a game where magic can make people fly or teleport.

For my part, the rules are quite clear - you may call for a Strength (Athletics) check when climbing or swimming given certain conditions. Otherwise, don't. It doesn't matter to me how fast anyone in the real world can climb El Capitan or swim the English Channel.