Clone Wars trailer leaked

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If the Jedi had had time, they might well have questioned it.

But remember, the battle at the end of Ep2 was a horrific disaster for the Jedi Order. That was basically a decapitation strike against Count Dooku and the Confed leadership. If they'd know they had an army, they would have brought one (as is, Yoda apparently moved incredibly fast), but without an equivalent military force (while the Senate had authorized an army, that takes time to build and train), trying to kill or capture the Confed leadership structure was their best hope for nipping the nascent rebellion in the bud. As we saw, the Jedi there were almost wiped out.

Had the Jedi been slaughtered or captured, the prestige of the Jedi Order would have plummeted, as they're obviously no longer fit to guard the Republic in these dangerous times. The only prestigious Jedi left would have been Yoda, who might well have retired in disgrace and grief (to be quietly hunted down and killed later). This would, in fact, have advanced Palpatine's agenda rather rapidly, actually. I suspect he hoped for this.

But, as happened on screen, suddenly, unlooked-for, there is a military force of stupendous proportion available for use, and already pledged to the Republic. With the knowledge that they had avoided catastrophe by the hair of Anakin's chin, the Jedi surely embraced the Clone Army as a means to keep the Republic safe and extend their fighting power. Puzzling inconsistencies (who actually started it? Why'd the prime template for the clones fight on the Confed side?) were shoved aside in gratitude that the Jedi might be able to win this one.

Brad

I guess my Startrek and Babylon 5 experience is affecting me here, but I need at least one minute of the Jedi (or at least one of them) agonizing about the hard choice they are forced to make. It has nothing to do with "suspension of disbelief", but everything to with "belief in moral actions"

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I guess my Startrek and Babylon 5 experience is affecting me here, but I need at least one minute of the Jedi (or at least one of them) agonizing about the hard choice they are forced to make. It has nothing to do with "suspension of disbelief", but everything to with "belief in moral actions"

I presume that any moral soulsearching happened off-screen, though possibly chronicled in the secondary media. At least, the time to wonder if you did the right thing is not when people are shooting at you.

Personally, I'd view using the clones as the lesser of the possible evils of letting the Separatists win (as they're led by a known Dark Side user) or having them disposed of by the Kaminoans. (Or, for that matter, have their services purchased by the Separatists!)

While it's likely the Republic could have fielded a military at some point, the Separatists had the advantage of long preparation, and a military that can be expanded and reinforced just using heavy industry. Without the clones, the Republic has to cobble something together out of existing security forces, which would be a logistical nightmare, and not likely able to stand up to the unified military machine of the Confederation for a long time. *With* the clones, they've got a unified military that can stand up to the Separatists and buy time to bring the member worlds' security forces into the fold.

Brad

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I presume that any moral soulsearching happened off-screen, though possibly chronicled in the secondary media. At least, the time to wonder if you did the right thing is not when people are shooting at you.

That's what they do in Star Trek all the time!

Moral soul-searching happening off-screen is... well... not as satisfying to me as it happening on-screen. At least, if done right, and not overdone. I suppose that wouldn't be guaranteed with the given director, so maybe the way it was done was for the better...

Personally, I'd view using the clones as the lesser of the possible evils of letting the Separatists win (as they're led by a known Dark Side user) or having them disposed of by the Kaminoans. (Or, for that matter, have their services purchased by the Separatists!)

While it's likely the Republic could have fielded a military at some point, the Separatists had the advantage of long preparation, and a military that can be expanded and reinforced just using heavy industry. Without the clones, the Republic has to cobble something together out of existing security forces, which would be a logistical nightmare, and not likely able to stand up to the unified military machine of the Confederation for a long time. *With* the clones, they've got a unified military that can stand up to the Separatists and buy time to bring the member worlds' security forces into the fold.

Brad

Well, considering the eventual outcome with the Empire and several years of imperial oppression, I am not sure that it was such a good choice, after all. Maybe it was still the best that could be taken. Palpatine was a clever man...

 

[Darth Shoju]

If I remember right, Lucas had said that the reason two hands were used was due to the lightsabers containing so much power...

Personally I think it was just because he's such a big fan of samurai movies.

 

[Darth Shoju]

It has nothing to do with "suspension of disbelief", but everything to with "belief in moral actions"

Maybe Palpatine was onto something. Maybe the Jedi aren't that moral.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Personally I think it was just because he's such a big fan of samurai movies.

Probably.

But it is pretty much one of the only distinct lightsaber combat style differences we get to see, so I'll take it!

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Actually, during the original trilogy, Lucas claimed that lightsabers had some heft from the blade, which is why they hold them two handed, swinging is pretty slow, etc. Obviously he's changed his mind about that since then.

 

[Felon]

On the contrary, The Empire Strikes Back happens to be my favorite film in the whole Star Wars saga. And I honestly believe that those scenes with Yoda training Luke are some of best in cinema history.

But what I took from that quote was that Yoda was pressing upon Luke that even a small creature such as he was capable of great things, because the Force was with him. I can accept the fact that Yoda could lift an X-Wing, it was a genuinely wonderous moment. But Yoda flinging starships like he did in Clone Wars? That's just plain cheesy.

Then there's Mace Windu, who single-handedly fare better against the droids in the Clone Wars cartoon than the entire jedi order does against the droids at the end of AotC. I guess in the former battle he was just "in the zone".

I actually think it's pretty obvious in the movies that the physical aspect of the force isn't casually wielded by anyone. That's the point of using lightsabers, for Pete's sake. I read reviews for Star Wars Saga at places like Amazon, and I'm puzzled at why some of the critics think it strains disbelief that by default a jedi power can only be used once per encounter.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Well, considering the eventual outcome with the Empire and several years of imperial oppression, I am not sure that it was such a good choice, after all. Maybe it was still the best that could be taken. Palpatine was a clever man...

The situation was set up by Palpy so that, pretty much whatever result happened, he would wind up on top; if the Republic wins, he's still Chancellor (and probably will be as long as he wants), and if the Confederation wins, well, Darth Sidious was in charge of that, too.

The only way he could lose was if the Jedi realized he was a Sith Lord, and managed to arrest and execute him, which came within an inch of happening. Heck, even if they did that, he'd still likely get a pyrrhic victory as the Republic turned on the Jedi for their "unjust and wicked coup against a harmless old man," since Palpy had the Senate more or less in his pocket. It's doubtful that the Republic would actually be a republic for much longer afterwards.

Brad

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Then there's Mace Windu, who single-handedly fare better against the droids in the Clone Wars cartoon than the entire jedi order does against the droids at the end of AotC. I guess in the former battle he was just "in the zone".

Perhaps Jedi are subject to the Reverse Ninja rule?

Brad