Code Monkey Lose WoTC License (Merged)

[3catcircus]

Now what makes you think I'm a console fan? I assure you, for as long as I love PC, I'm not THAT much of a fool.

Never thought you were or weren't.

Isn't that what you want in a program? To have everything?

Nope - just the *option* to have everything or anything - pick and chose. Ideally, if you bought the book, you'd want the datasets and if you didn't, you wouldn't.

In a perfect world, there wouldn't be Kazaa, or a place for fools that spent money on electronic document and offer said document to everyone for free (be it through Kazaa or newsgroups).

In a perfect world, there would be honorable people in a society that has no crime.

Weeellll.... I've never used Kazaa so I don't know how it operates, but, despite the RIAA/MPAA/xxAA's arguments otherwise, copyright violations (without intent to make money) technically *aren't* criminal - they are civil in nature.

That having been said, the xxAA's tactics *are* criminal - strong-arming people who either don't have a computer, or who they themselves didn't access music, movies, etc. - even when this has been disclosed in court. When they can't get someone to settle out of court, they know they will lose in court and drop the case - this has happened more than a few times.

Even though I don't download movies or music, I *have* stopped buying CDs and DVDs simply because I don't want to support a criminal organization (RIAA/MPAA). If I want to listen to music, I'll go to the concert - at least that way, the artist is getting more than he/she would from the sale of a CD. As to movies - I just wait till they hit DirecTV.

Riiiight. We're talking about the human civilization, aren't we?

Granted, there are a few deviants but they do come from the same stock as you and I.

True - but the ones who should be prosecuted are the Malaysian/Taiwanese/Chinese bootleggers who sell $2 copies of movies and music before the real stuff actually hits the street.

 

[kingpaul]

I'm complaining about PCGen and CMP *because* they have had (until recently) a monopoly on the data in the software arena.

PCGen did not have a license with WotC. CMP did, and the could produce datasets for eTools and PCGen.

 

[mosat]

In the context I am using, "creating" and "creativity" aren't the same thing. Creativity results from originality of thought or expression. Creating is causing to come into being. Entering data into .lst files is "creating" something but it certainly is not creative since the information already exists. That is all I am saying.

I disagree, if there were no creativity involved we would already have a program to do the conversion from one text to code. The only information which exists when you start is the source text which will only get you so far in terms of how the text needs to be formatted for PCGen.

It happens all the time, regardless of legality. How many kids from the 70s and 80s do you think actually bought albums or cassettes without first listening to a copy from a friend?

I know it does, this is really a completely different debate which I have no interest in. My original point was that your CD/MP3 and Source/Dataset analogy is flawed, MP3's can be quickly generated with a computer program, Datasets require lots of work by a skilled human being and therefore there is some inharent value in the dataset itself besides the contents of the source.

 

[Christoph the Magus]

Well, just wanted to chime in a say that this blows, and wish CMP all the best in the future. I just headed over and downloaded everything that I think that I'll need. I couldn't DM half as well without Etools-I hope that something pops up to take it's place.

Christoph

 

[Ranger REG]

Nope - just the *option* to have everything or anything - pick and chose. Ideally, if you bought the book, you'd want the datasets and if you didn't, you wouldn't.

What about those who don't own a PC? Should they pay the price of both (book and dataset)?

(And don't give me guff that the dataset should be a bonus.)

 

[Firzair]

Just a question: given that I'm working on a freeware tool that uses xml-files for data and rules coding, would it make sense to include an en-/decryption algorythm to use encoded data provided by the publisher (with a personal key)? This data could then only be imported into the database, but not exported or changed.
Do you think this would be used by publishers if I provided an easy and free way for them to encode their downloads?

Greetings
Firzair

 

[green slime]

This is just a completly pointless post to say that 3catcircus reflects my opinions on this subject.

I too was burnt by the suddenly continuous-changing format of PCgen .lsts files, after spending weeks of my time editting them for my campaign. I would of happily paid more for the datasets to be included with the books, when I bought them.

As an aside, as of this summer, I no longer purchase WotC DnD products. IMO, WotC has surpassed the excesses of even the madhouse that was T$R 2e.

 

[DonTadow]

What about those who don't own a PC? Should they pay the price of both (book and dataset)?

(And don't give me guff that the dataset should be a bonus.)

gruff

No seriously, YES!. Paizo began doing it with their dungeon books, not the whole book but much of the handout content at least. I think wotc should follow suit and offer the electronic content with the book. IF this was 10 years ago, I'd say no, but I doent know one DM who doesn't use a computer in their preparation in some way or fashion and I certainly don't think theres anyone on here whom wouldn't find it at least helpful.

 

[buzz]

Why were PCGen's data files not XML to begin with, BTW? I was always curious why they went with the tab-delimited (?) text files. Seems like Java's XML handling classes would have been easier than what I assume is a lot of string-manipulation with the current .lst format.

As you can tell, I have just enough Java experience to be dangerous.

 

[jujutsunerd]

Why were PCGen's data files not XML to begin with, BTW? I was always curious why they went with the tab-delimited (?) text files. Seems like Java's XML handling classes would have been easier than what I assume is a lot of string-manipulation with the current .lst format.

I'm not Bryan, but most likely it was because pcgen started as his 'learn java by writing something cool' project back in 2001. He probably didn't want to add in yet another techology.

Then, we just kept poking at the code, most of us learning as we went along. Lots of mistakes (coding as well as design) were made that have come back to haunt us later. But, it was a lot of fun and a great learning experience. Still is, even though I, personally, have barely touched the code over the last year or two.

/Jonas