Combat beguiler

[jasin]

What would be a fair trade for a beguiler to get medium BAB?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Go down to 4+ int skill points, get bard progression spells, capping at 6, and maybe lose trapfinding or some other class features that step on the Rogue and Bard's toes? Beguiler's already pretty overpowered, if you're going to make them melee viable, too, they need to lose a few things.

Of course, I hate the Beguiler passionately, so I might have a harsher opinion on this than most.

 

[Runestar]

Skillful weapon property already gives you 3/4 bab at +1, IIRC.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't recall that one, but printed or not, I'd never allow something like that into my games. IMO, that kind of item would completely break any semblance of class balance.

 

[amethal]

Go down to 4+ int skill points, get bard progression spells, capping at 6, and maybe lose trapfinding or some other class features that step on the Rogue and Bard's toes?

Of course, beguiler only steps on the toes of the Rogue and Bard if there is one of the others in the party.

Trapfinding isn't a useful class ability; instead its a requirement in some adventures (after forcing you to put ranks in search that could be going into more "wizardly" skills) and no use at all in others.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Skillful weapon property already gives you 3/4 bab at +1, IIRC.

Skillful (Complete Arcane, 144): you are automatically considered proficient with the weapon and treat your base attack bonus as being 3/4 of your level (unless it's already higher). Cost equivalent: +2
Interestingly, it isn't reprinted in the MIC; perhaps the designers thought it unbalancing as well.

Go down to 4+ int skill points, get bard progression spells, capping at 6, and maybe lose trapfinding or some other class features that step on the Rogue and Bard's toes? Beguiler's already pretty overpowered, if you're going to make them melee viable, too, they need to lose a few things.

Bards don't have trapfinding so it isn't stepping on their feet.

As far as the actual thread topic this would be very difficult to do-balancing beguiler at 3/4 HD BAB. The class is indeed quite powerful, and removing non-combat powers to balance a BAB increase doesn't really cut it. I would have to say reducing the spell progression to something Bard-ish; perhaps slightly better. Cutting skill points won't do it.

 

[Runestar]

Why would you want to increase bab anyways? The class is not built for combat in the first place. You have the goods with large area-affecting debuffs, why bother wading into melee?

 

[jasin]

Skillful weapon property already gives you 3/4 bab at +1, IIRC.

True that! I had forgotten about that.

 

[jasin]

Don't recall that one, but printed or not, I'd never allow something like that into my games. IMO, that kind of item would completely break any semblance of class balance.

Which class would you say can put this to best use, and what is the worst unbalancing effect they can achieve with it?

It seems to me that anyone with worse than medium BAB has all sorts of additional incentives to stay out of melee. Giving medium BAB with a sword to a wizard isn't going to make him a swordsman.

A wizard with high Str and Con who uses self-buff spells, but chooses not to go into eldritch knight because he wants for concept purposes... well, he'll certainly like it, but he can use the boost.

 

[jasin]

Why would you want to increase bab anyways? The class is not built for combat in the first place. You have the goods with large area-affecting debuffs, why bother wading into melee?

I like the idea of a warrior-mage who's neither about turning his skin into stone or giving himself the strength of a giant, nor about blasting his opponents with fire and lightning through his sword, but about confusing his enemies with illusions before cutting them up. Even though medium BAB alone isn't going to do it, the beguiler seems like a good place to start.