Combat Expertise and Duelists

[Li Shenron]

Combat Expertise does not replace the Fight Defensively option because it specifically states that they stack.

Everything stacks so that a duellist can raise their AC to insane levels at the cost of accuracy.

I wouldn't say it "specifically states that they stack", but it also doesn't specifically say they don't stack, and they are dodge bonuses from different sources.

IIRC it was said in 3.0 FAQs that they stack, both bonus and penalties, so you can use both fighting defensively and combat expertise at the same time.

There's nothing else that makes me think you couldn't use all these abilities at the same time. Obviously, there is no problem with getting the increased bonus to fighting defensively from Tumble and the one from Elaborate Parry at the same time (also, one is from weaving and the other from parrying...) but I can understand that the expertise bonus can sound weird to someone... In any case, dodge bonuses from different sources stack.

 

[Avatar of the North]

I wouldn't say it "specifically states that they stack", but it also doesn't specifically say they don't stack, and they are dodge bonuses from different sources.

IIRC it was said in 3.0 FAQs that they stack, both bonus and penalties, so you can use both fighting defensively and combat expertise at the same time.

There's nothing else that makes me think you couldn't use all these abilities at the same time. Obviously, there is no problem with getting the increased bonus to fighting defensively from Tumble and the one from Elaborate Parry at the same time (also, one is from weaving and the other from parrying...) but I can understand that the expertise bonus can sound weird to someone... In any case, dodge bonuses from different sources stack.

[qoute]
p. 140 Player's Handbook (not SRD)
You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. This bonus stacks with the AC bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat (page 92).
[/quote]

how isn't that explicitly stated?

 

[Li Shenron]

[qoute]
p. 140 Player's Handbook (not SRD)
You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. This bonus stacks with the AC bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat (page 92).

how isn't that explicitly stated?[/QUOTE]

Great! No need to argue anymore...

 

[iwatt]

So oK, Combat Expertise and Fighting defensively can stack. I guess that -9 for +7+5+2+1=+15 AC isn't bad. Take improved Trip and you only have to succeed at a melee touch attack (the -9 will be compensated by the loss of armor, except aganst other duelists ). So now we know, Improvde Trip is the feat for Duelists .

 

[Hypersmurf]

So now we know, Improvde Trip is the feat for Duelists .

And Small Spiked Chain is the weapon. One-handed piercing weapon, so it gives you all your bonuses. Ten foot inclusive reach, trip weapon, and bonus to trip attacks.

Sure, you get a -2 penalty for inappropriate-sized weapon, and the crits suck... but you can trip from ten feet away!

-Hyp.

 

[iwatt]

And Small Spiked Chain is the weapon. One-handed piercing weapon, so it gives you all your bonuses. Ten foot inclusive reach, trip weapon, and bonus to trip attacks.

Sure, you get a -2 penalty for inappropriate-sized weapon, and the crits suck... but you can trip from ten feet away!

-Hyp.

This is were I draw the line . A spiked chain duelist. That's just awesome. too awesome to be true .

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

This is were I draw the line . A spiked chain duelist. That's just awesome. too awesome to be true .

I had a player once who wanted to play a duelist who monkey-gripped harpoons

 

[Stormrunner]

This is were I draw the line . A spiked chain duelist. That's just awesome. too awesome to be true .

Cf. WotC's "Grey Elf Snakestrike Duelist" miniature.
I could see using the chain in the off-hand, paired with a rapier (better damage and crits). Make the trip as an off-hand attack when the foe is 10' away. If they go down, take your 5' step forward and stick 'em with the sword. If not, take the 5' step back - they'll probably have to take more than a 5' step to reach you, so you'll get AoOs as they close.

 

[iwatt]

So the ultimate Duelist would use the spiked chain. And would trip. And probably disarm as well. Add in apropriate amounts of Combat reflexes. What else? Use a wand of Enlarge person for extra reach?

By the way, isn't disarming a Duelist the only optoin? Since he's taking a -9 to Attacks for that +15 to AC, he won't be winning those opposed rolls. Assuming both characters have Improved Disarm, similar BAB and the ability modifiers, that 9 point differential is huge. Besides wonce he's dropped the Spiked chain of DOOM, he looses his Elaborate parry.

 

[Lela]

So the ultimate Duelist would use the spiked chain. And would trip. And probably disarm as well. Add in apropriate amounts of Combat reflexes. What else? Use a wand of Enlarge person for extra reach?

Is Total Defense still in there?

By the way, isn't disarming a Duelist the only optoin? Since he's taking a -9 to Attacks for that +15 to AC, he won't be winning those opposed rolls. Assuming both characters have Improved Disarm, similar BAB and the ability modifiers, that 9 point differential is huge. Besides wonce he's dropped the Spiked chain of DOOM, he looses his Elaborate parry.

Disarming is definitally a good idea. Perhaps the chained gauntlet would be a good idea for the Duelist. I'd also recomend a Glove of Storing for back up. Get a Ring of Dextarity (or something) instead of the Gloves.