Combat Reflexes a Rogue Must-Have Feat?
- Thread starter Mistwell
- Start date
hey, look. if you all want to bang on a relatively new poster, then fine. beat up on me. i know pirate cat isn't going to warn anyone who is a regular poster anyway.
but most of that IS broken. heck, most of what WotC put out after the core is broken in one way or another. they know that suckers will just keep plunking down money if they release new product, and after a while, power-gamer PCs will stop buying if the relative power level doesn't increase.
some isn't broken, like the warmage. the warmage is underpowered. but the beguiler is broken, no two ways about it. the knight is slightly broken. so is the warlock. the scout is mostly fine. etc, etc, etc.
*edit*
we're also getting away from the topic, as it were.
but most of that IS broken. heck, most of what WotC put out after the core is broken in one way or another. they know that suckers will just keep plunking down money if they release new product, and after a while, power-gamer PCs will stop buying if the relative power level doesn't increase.
some isn't broken, like the warmage. the warmage is underpowered. but the beguiler is broken, no two ways about it. the knight is slightly broken. so is the warlock. the scout is mostly fine. etc, etc, etc.
*edit*
we're also getting away from the topic, as it were.
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What are you saying? That regular posters get special treatmen? It think you are wrong (a bit like your 'everything is broken' sweeping statement). If you hang around the boards long enough, then you'll see mods warning regular posters on occasion. Usually for only minor infractions.... but I have seen a suspension and life ban as well.1500run said:
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Bwah ha ha! I've actually suspended more people this month than I have in the preceding four combined, and every one of them was a regular poster. One had over 3000 posts. So I'm not exactly sure where that complaint comes from; you're welcome to email me about it if you want to satisfy my curiosity. In fact, complaints about moderators should always be handled by email and not in the forums, please.1500run said:
But what you're seeing here is people objecting to the unilateral statements "no, allowing AoOs on 5' steps is broken, no matter which way you slice it. no character should be allowed that." and "also, that entire book is broken, and a waste of money." You may not realize it, but what you're saying in those sentences is "This is the truth and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong." If you had phrased them as less of an absolute, I suspect that the reception would have been much less sarcastic.
There's nothing wrong with holding strong opinions. When you force them on other people as 'Teh troof!', however - "the beguiler is broken, no two ways about it" - arguments tend to blossom. Please avoid that particular style of arguing. I think you'll find the discussions a lot more interesting and hospitable when you do.
And... back on subject, please. Anyone who wants to discuss this further should drop me a line.
1500run said:
If the Beguiler is broken, the Cleric is positively smashed, and so is the Druid.
Since 2 of the main core classes are smashed wide open, I guess its ok for Scout to be slightly broken, since slightly broken means "balanced ok" compared to smashed base classes.
Or we are using Broken to mean "Not at all broken"
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
I must not have been clear when I asked that the thread return to on-topic - which, judging by the first post, is the value of combat reflexes. Anyone who would like to discuss class balance is welcome to start a new thread. Stay away from continuing this argument -- and that means that everyone would need to discuss actual rules, not just use sarcasm and hyperbole to try and score points.
Ahem.
*whistles casually*
Ahem.
*whistles casually*
Nail
First Post
Ooops. Missed that.bestone said:
So.....Combat Reflexes is a "must have" feat for rogues because:
If they take Combat Reflexes,
And then they take Savvy Rogue feat,
And then they are 10th level,
And then they take the Opportunist ability,
....they can make an extra AoO (1 per opponent per round) aganist targets struck by someone else?
Do I have that right?
Gort
Explorer
Well, in my opinion, rogue melee attacks are pretty worthless unless you're getting the sneak attack damage. Since AoOs are provoked by other entities, you don't usually get sneak attack because it's very situational, so the feat's not worth much on its own.
I've never actually seen anyone use the feat, either, but on the other hand I haven't seen many characters using reach weapons/effects, so I suppose it's not surprising.
I've never actually seen anyone use the feat, either, but on the other hand I haven't seen many characters using reach weapons/effects, so I suppose it's not surprising.
Darklone
Registered User
I've had too many ftr/rog, bbn/rog, clr/rog and other rogue multiclass builds, often with twohanded PA weapons to concur. Rogue melee attacks are IMHO as dangerous as any melee attacks if the character is not build to be a sneaking halfling rogue (and I've seen and used some ugly builds for these as well). These rogues have been deadly and more so if they qualified for sneak attacks.Gort said:
I do remember one of the first big battles in 3.0 when that group (9 dudes and everyone wanted skillpoints) happened to stumble into a white dragon that was supposed to be too strong for them... Then flanking happened, rage helped to hit, sneak attack damage with greatswords and greataxes sliced the dragon apart in less than two rounds and I had a bunch of players with much too much money on their hands.
Particle_Man
Explorer
I'd say that Combat Reflexes can be nice for Rogues with builds tailored to getting lots of Aoos per round, but since such a build is not for every rogue, neither is combat reflexes.
Thus, not every (or even most every) rogue should take that feat.
To contrast, *every* druid should take the Natural Spell feat.
Thus, not every (or even most every) rogue should take that feat.
To contrast, *every* druid should take the Natural Spell feat.
