Come and Get it. An explanation ?

[abyssaldeath]

Also realize that the slide isn't 'magical' in nature but rather from them turning/sidestepping based on their reaction to the taunt. I say this because powers that are about fear or charm (such as charm person, or a dragon's thing) are also represented as slides, pulls, and pushes and not "some mystical force propels you..." so you have to be able to accept it as jittery sidesteps and what not (or something like that).

I too also fear a dragon's "thing".

 

[Vayden]

Yeah, that's one of the ones that stretches things a bit. If it bothers you, either don't use it, or come up with something that makes some sense. My Wizard (multi-classed Fighter) uses it, and with her I always explain it as "oh, the poor vulnerable Wizard has slipped, I really hope these nasty monsters don't close in to finish me . . . Oh, hello boys, I was faking - Staff to the Face!"

 

[Larrin]

While i can't explain why goblins would suddenly decide to turn around and attack a big armored fighter, I can defend the ability as being precisely the sort of ability a fighter would want. It is one of the ultimate defender abilities. it 1) draws foes away from weaker allies 2) draws foes adjacent to you 3) AND THEN MARKS THEM ALL. It helps you be an awesome defender, you just sucked every body next to you so you can keep an eye on them. Yeah its a little 'realism shaky' with the autopull etc, but its simple and elegant in mechanical terms, very useful and not any more powerful than other powers at that level. Let the players have it, just tell reality to look the other way when they use it.

 

[Gort]

I can defend the ability as being precisely the sort of ability a fighter would want.

They would also want powers that can level cities or destroy planets. I'm not sure if this is a valid defense, as you could also use it to defend fighters being able to pick from every power in the PHB from any class, since "they would want them".

 

[DM_Blake]

I truly wish 4e had avoided all the automagic push/pull/slide abilities, except in cases where they are truly justified, like if a power involves slamming into a foe and knocking them back (which should have been push X squares, but reduce X for larger foes).

All the rest, like Come and Get It should really motivate the foes to make their own decsion on their next round. It should include penalties if they don't. It could even state "foes who decide to attack any of your allies next round must attack you instead" or some such thing. No pull, no slide, no forced movement at all.

Which would eliminate almost all of this wonkiness in one fell swoop.

I smell a house rule coming for my game (or really, I smell maybe dozens of house rules coming as I go through the powers and make this kind of adjustment on most push/pull/slide powers that don't include actual magical compulsion or actual physical mass collision).

4e could have been a great game. But all this wonkiness chops it down from great to merely good. Fixing the wonkiness could restore it to great.

And I don't see how injecting a simple bit of realism into these powers makes them any less fun, so I don't buy the "don't think about roleplaying" or "they did it to make it more fun" explanations - there is a best of both worlds solution for 4e that would make the game immensely more appealing to all the players out there who aren't fully satisfied with the RAW, and usually without detracting one bit from the players who are fully satisfied. I wish WotC had tried harder for that solution so we don't all end up playing an infinite number of different house-ruled versions of 4e.

 

[Larrin]

They would also want powers that can level cities or destroy planets. I'm not sure if this is a valid defense, as you could also use it to defend fighters being able to pick from every power in the PHB from any class, since "they would want them".

had i only said "they would want this power" then you would have a point. I then state WHY its a desirable defender power, ie why its the sort of power a defender should have/want. to recap 1) it pulls enemies away from allies 2)makes them stand next to you 3)marks them. Since every one of these points is something that is iconic to the defender role, i felt that would make it the sort of power a defender would want to have. You know, its a very defendery power. Its a good tool for defenders to have, and fits the role, and fits the power level, on a purely mechanical level there isn't any reason this shouldn't be in a martial defenders tool box.

I admit there are some quibbles to be had with explaining how you (non)"magically" pull people in towards you, but the mechanics behind it is sound and in-line with the way a fighter 'wants' to work.

 

[Midknightsun]

You don't magically pull people towards you. It doesn't take a compulsion effect to get someone or something to do something, really. Force of personality and positioning can easily accomplish this in a real fight, let alone a fantasy game. By the way, fantasy doesn't require every effect to have a magical component, or sci-fi would be SOL. There were lots of effects in prior editions that didn't allow saves, I'm not sure why this is such a hangup, other than a gamer tendency to think that their characters should be allowed to avoid any effect (especially the more mental ones) with a "saving throw". In the case of monsters charging the fighter after turning tail, why doesn't it make sense? If their that cowardly how did they work up the gonads to attack him in the first place? The ability assumes that the fighter is good at hitting just the right buttons to get them to came at him. The rest is up to the players to imagine. I personally have no issues with it, but if a particular group is really wound up about it, then remove it. Problem solved.

 

[Plane Sailing]

They would also want powers that can level cities or destroy planets.

Klatu Berada Nikto!

 

[Logos7]

or to use mmo terminology, that the goblins where attempting to Kite the fighter and got a little too close. (this actually gives with the goblin skirmishers i've been using requiring movement to get an extra +2/+1d6 . I've had a lot of goblins running up firing spears, running away, running side to side , in other words skirmishing) It doesn't seem out of character in my book .

Logos

 

[LostSoul]

I truly wish 4e had avoided all the automagic push/pull/slide abilities, except in cases where they are truly justified, like if a power involves slamming into a foe and knocking them back (which should have been push X squares, but reduce X for larger foes).

Let's imagine that you are playing a Fighter, and you say the following:

"I chase after them, yelling, 'Come and get it!' I want them to turn back and come after me."

Now imagine that the DM "says Yes" to this request - hey, it's plausible, right? - and asks for a roll.

Now imagine that you have a special ability that allows you to roll a 20 on that check, and another special ability that allows you to attack all nearby bad guys.

Is that still "automagic" or not?