Coming in May: Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes! [UPDATED!]

So they just gave the title and showed the cover mock-ups; no specific info till Monday?

 

[MechaTarrasque]

No problem. That would have been an impressively OP racial feat....

I don't mind celestial versions of elves "replacing" pre-4e eladrin, but I would like some kind of power up (I am not fond of "I went to Arborea, and all I fought were the same elves I could have fought back home"). It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have something similar for the goblinoids and orcs of Archeron and the dwarves of Arcadia.

You did get me thinking that one size fits all isn't a good plan either:

So if the celestial elves base CR is 2 or smaller, they can get one of the following effects:

Use an action to polymorph into a sprite (or back) 3/day
Use an action to polymorph into a dolphin (or back) 3/day
Know and be able to cast one of the following spells:
Armor of Agathys 3/day
Fire Shield 1/day
Wind Wall 1/day

If the base CR is 3 or higher, they can get one of the following effects:

Use their action to polymorph into a will o' the wisp (or back) 3/day or
Cast Investiture of Flame 1/day
Cast Investiture of Stone 1/day
Cast Investiture of Ice 1/day
Cast Investiture of Wind 1/day

 

[Aldarc]

I can't say I feel anything about them. I don't know the first thing about them. I only know the Great Wheel (2e/3e/5e) and the World Axis with any real solidity; I've never had the chance to read any of the reference material for 3e Faerun's planar cosmology (the World Tree?) or Eberron's.

I would say that Eberron's grouping of the planes (1) reinforces Eberron's conceit of the "Baker's Dozen," with twelve planes and one hidden/lost one, and (2) groups planes more thematically as opposed to alignment-based. So on this latter point, for example, Eberron's plane of Fernia is more generally the plane of fire, and it contains fire elementals, azers, efreeti, fire-themed devils, and fire-themed demons.

 

[jasper]

We are getting the Archdevils here.

Great I need arch support, my feet are burning.

 

[gyor]

No problem. That would have been an impressively OP racial feat....

I don't mind celestial versions of elves "replacing" pre-4e eladrin, but I would like some kind of power up (I am not fond of "I went to Arborea, and all I fought were the same elves I could have fought back home"). It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have something similar for the goblinoids and orcs of Archeron and the dwarves of Arcadia.

You did get me thinking that one size fits all isn't a good plan either:

So if the celestial elves base CR is 2 or smaller, they can get one of the following effects:

Use an action to polymorph into a sprite (or back) 3/day
Use an action to polymorph into a dolphin (or back) 3/day
Know and be able to cast one of the following spells:
Armor of Agathys 3/day
Fire Shield 1/day
Wind Wall 1/day

If the base CR is 3 or higher, they can get one of the following effects:

Use their action to polymorph into a will o' the wisp (or back) 3/day or
Cast Investiture of Flame 1/day
Cast Investiture of Stone 1/day
Cast Investiture of Ice 1/day
Cast Investiture of Wind 1/day

They aren't exactly the same elves, certain spells like charm person that target only humanoids normally don't work on them, but spells like Planar Binding that work on Celestials do. Plus they can be summoned by spells like Planar Ally and created by Conjure Celestial.

 

[dave2008]

https://i.imgur.com/fhpBm7M_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Actually, it could very well be Malcanthet, just a twist on her classic artistic depictions.

Not too far of a leap from those to this...

I think your right. I originally thought maybe Glasya, but she doesn't typically have the big horns of Mal. This image appears to have large horns (could be a helmet), just rendered a little differently.

 

[dave2008]

I may be wrong about this (still new to DND, don't k ow any past edition lore) but the cover person looks like an Erinyes to me. I know they typically have angel wings, but other than that, I would think it's a deva-turned-devil.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

If the size is correct, then it is to big to be an Erinyes (and the wings are wrong - still feathers in 5e).

 

[dave2008]

Looking at the picture again, looking at what the bat winged woman is wearing, there is no way she is Glasya, Fierna, or Malcanthet. So a Cambion variant is most likely.

Why not Mal? To much clothes? That could easily be artistic license. It is just too big to be a cambion - but that could be artistic license too.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

They aren't exactly the same elves, certain spells like charm person that target only humanoids normally don't work on them, but spells like Planar Binding that work on Celestials do. Plus they can be summoned by spells like Planar Ally and created by Conjure Celestial.

That is true, but this is one of those "flavor to taste" issues, and it doesn't quite do it for me. For other people, that may be fine. I was good with the 4e court-related eladrin, and it won't hurt my feelings in the least if humanoid eladrin (or elves in general) get the same NPC options, but I would like the celestials to get a little more kick.

[I do think the value of planar ally and conjure celestial are enhanced by this, although it makes the CR limitations on CC annoying].

 

[Elderbrain]

Just wanted to get a few things off of my chest now that I finally caught up on the end of the thread.

Firstly, I am really, really disappointed that after the wonderful "End of Human Domination" design angle they had in 4e, they have explicitly turned their back on it and returned to suckling from that dry and withered teat.

Secondly, Planescape Eladrin as a higher-ranked, more magically powerful form of the "mystical elf" Eladrin PC race is not unique to 5e, it's actually how they were handled in 4e - Ghaele, Bralani, Coure and all the rest were different esoteric ranks of nobility and authority within the Court of Stars. In fact, the very first 4e Monster Manual had the Bralani of Autumn Winds and the Ghaele of Winter as enemies, with the Coure of Mischief & Strife appearing in the MM2.

Finally, I'm not hugely fussed on Shadar-kai reverting to being a fey race because it seems like a cheap way to cheat them out of having their actual shadow-melding and other unique racial powers, but I can enjoy it when I think on how this inadvertently gives a huge middle finger to old-school lore that elves never, ever get involved in necromancy or anything relating to it.

Eh, not quite. The names were recycled, but a 4e "Coure" was quite different from a 2e Coure; among other things, the 4e version is human sized while the 2e version is the size of a pixie and had wings. Old school Eladrin didn't just have different ranks per name, they had different sizes and body shapes, not just different powers, in the same way that a Mane differs in size and shape from a Marilith, a Balor, or a Yochlol. They're all demons, sure, but the difference between a Marilith and a Balor is more than just rank, they physically differ. If 4e had taken the same approach to demons that it took to Eladrin, they would all be the same size with the same body plan. (i.e. all 4e Eladrin are medium-sized and human-shaped, with no wings, etc.) And I can't recall any statement in old-school lore to the effect that Elves never become Necromancers, but maybe I missed it. If the 5e Eladrin in Arborea turn out to be the 4e "super" Eladrin, I will be sorely disappointed... Remember, originally Eladrin were NOT elves (nor were Shadar-Kai, which were Fey but not elves).

 

[Quickleaf]

Eh, not quite. The names were recycled, but a 4e "Coure" was quite different from a 2e Coure; among other things, the 4e version is human sized while the 2e version is the size of a pixie and had wings. Old school Eladrin didn't just have different ranks per name, they had different sizes and body shapes, not just different powers, in the same way that a Mane differs in size and shape from a Marilith, a Balor, or a Yochlol. They're all demons, sure, but the difference between a Marilith and a Balor is more than just rank, they physically differ. If 4e had taken the same approach to demons that it took to Eladrin, they would all be the same size with the same body plan. (i.e. all 4e Eladrin are medium-sized and human-shaped, with no wings, etc.) And I can't recall any statement in old-school lore to the effect that Elves never become Necromancers, but maybe I missed it. If the 5e Eladrin in Arborea turn out to be the 4e "super" Eladrin, I will be sorely disappointed... Remember, originally Eladrin were NOT elves (nor were Shadar-Kai, which were Fey but not elves).

In the Febuary 5 Dragon Talk Jeremy Crawford was talking about going back to the origin story of how the elves – once fey beings – became divided into all the various subraces of elves that we have in D&D. Eladrin seem to be exalted or progenitor elves, at least that's what he seems to be saying, and that their forms are more mutable, so one can transform into a new faerie form. Definitely worth a listen too, as it actually sounds like they've found a way to resolve the various versions of eladrin quite nicely.