D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Pedantic]

In theory, it totally makes sense. Why would you understand Orc?! Why would the orcs understand you?!

But short of giving Comp. Languages a reason to exist, I’ve yet to see languages known be used in a fun way - it’s always a hurdle and more of a nuisance than a challenge. It’s always the first thing forgotten on one’s character sheet too. It’s the first thing the DM forgets to start incorporating into the game.

Yeah, this is my experience as well. I've found it easiest to go Stargate style. You're either speaking [standard language] or sometimes [secret language the players will eventually figure out]. Sometimes things are written in [ancient language] which no one speaks, but can be understood with some time and/or checks by a scholar.

 

[TwoSix]

I do think it's fine for Command to supersede actually knowing the language in question, because I see it as a supernatural command, like in the language of the universe or whatever, the language the gods spoke to bring the world into being. But generally? I like complex language setups.

Hmm...only knowing a few bespoke commands in the language of the gods/universe/whatever would actually make quite a bit of sense. You can't command the orc to "autodefenestrate" because you simply don't know that word in the godstongue.

Considering how many Cleric spells revolve around tropes of words, languages, and communication, one could argue for some implicit worldbuilding between divine magic and this "universal language".

 

[TiQuinn]

Yeah, this is my experience as well. I've found it easiest to go Stargate style. You're either speaking [standard language] or sometimes [secret language the players will eventually figure out]. Sometimes things are written in [ancient language] which no one speaks, but can be understood with some time and/or checks by a scholar.

Yeah, I’ve seen it used in the short term when dealing with something like a lost temple or civilization but eventually it becomes a barrier to the DM giving the PCs information and poof…it’s a forgotten point.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Absolutely agree with the OP.

I sometimes feel like I'm the only one that sees these kinds of design philosophy shifts, or that everyone else who sees them just prefers 2024's philosophy.

I've played every edition from BECMI to 5e and every time I changed to a new edition it was because I actually preferred it (including trying out one and then sticking with the previous because I preferred it).

5e isn't perfect by any stretch, but its original design philosophy is closer to my ideal D&D than any other to date, and 2024 (and I feel like it noticeably started shifting around Xanathar's, even though there is a lot of the stuff I prefer still in that one) just isn't the same.

I feel like 3.5e was, with a few truly minor quibbles, a straight up improvement to 3.0e with the same design philosophy. (Assuming a combat grid was about the biggest philosophical departure, and a grid still wasn't required, just supported in more detail.) And I think the vast majority of 3.0e fans would agree with me, which is why nobody stuck with 3.0e because of a design shift. (A few stuck because they didn't want to re-buy the books, but few other reasons.)

But seems like "everyone" (and I haven't read this thread yet, so judging by other sources) is looking at the 2014 to 2024 transition as the same as 3.0 to 3.5, and from someone for whom 2e was my favorite when it was current, then 3e when it was current, then 3.5e until 5e was current...the change from 5e 2014 to recent products and 2024 just isn't the same as the shift from 3.0e to 3.5e.

Which is my long-winded way of saying thank you to the OP for such a well thought out post showing me I'm not crazy.

 

[Pedantic]

Hmm...only knowing a few bespoke commands in the language of the gods/universe/whatever would actually make quite a bit of sense. You can't command the orc to "autodefenestrate" because you simply don't know that word in the godstongue.

Considering how many Cleric spells revolve around tropes of words, languages, and communication, one could argue for some implicit worldbuilding between divine magic and this "universal language".

While a fun and flavorful idea, isn't that pretty explicitly a Bard thing in 5.5, with that high level Words of Creation, Power Word Kill/Heal ability?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, this is my experience as well. I've found it easiest to go Stargate style. You're either speaking [standard language] or sometimes [secret language the players will eventually figure out]. Sometimes things are written in [ancient language] which no one speaks, but can be understood with some time and/or checks by a scholar.

Pretty much.

It's one of those things like finding a bathroom where yeah it might be more realistic, but it doesn't really add anything but a minor annoyance.

Like okay, we can't understand this guy. Guess we're just not interacting with him. Hurray for having people around we can't interact with? Set Dressing for the set dressing god?

 

[Nefermandias]

There was no 2.5E.

The second (really ugly) printing-run/edition of the 2E core books just corrected typos and slightly re-arranged text. Skills & Powers etc. weren't a 2.5E as they just added on top of all the stuff already in 2E.

Combat and Tactics added a whole new combat system and reworked the weapon proficiencies system entirely. I would argue that using some of those optional systems felt very much like "2.5"

 

[TwoSix]

While a fun and flavorful idea, isn't that pretty explicitly a Bard thing in 5.5, with that high level Words of Creation, Power Word Kill/Heal ability?

For sure. No one would accuse 5e of having a lot of cohesive worldbuilding within the core books.

You would expect PW:K and PW:H, which thematically are like Command pumped up to epic tier, to be with Command on the same class list.

 

[Lanefan]

Personally, I'm on the fence here. Removing the need for the target to understand you, while admittedly a PITA, is kind of nonsensical. I'd add that it weakens the point of learning different languages, but that ship has sailed into the sunset, lol.

OTOH, I'm so tired of people coming up with ridiculous commands that are too OP, I have no idea how to interpret, or are just in poor taste.

How can a Command be too OP. Hell, it only lasts a very short time; the target can only do so much during that time.

"No idea how to interpret"; I'd need to see some examples, 'cause I can't reall ever having a problem interpreting a) whether a command was valid and then b) what it forced the target to do on a failed save.

Poor taste? That's what makes it more fun.

I've had nothing but problems with open-ended spells in the decades I've been gaming. Illusions, suggestion, wish- these are always moments where player expectations and DM expectations collide.

The player is always trying to see what they can get away with, and the DM is constantly trying to make sure the game's balance doesn't implode- the end result is a lot of "meh".

Or a lot of arguments, to be sure. But even then, both as player and DM I'd rather have that than see all those open-ended spells nerfed into the ground or removed outright.

 

[Lanefan]

German can't be that bad can it? I mean ... quick google search later ... holy ****. Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän is a word in German. It means "Danube steamship company captain".

Meanwhile you can also just create words like Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft, which has 80 letters and means "Association for Subordinate Officials of the Head Office Management of the Danube Steamboat Electrical Services". However, that's not an official word since it's not found in dictionaries. Which means that a word for Danube steamship company captain is.

The more you know.

And more to the point, neither of those words would qualify as a valid Command in any edition; which means you just blew off your spell slot to no effect.