Comments and dislikes of lore and other changes in the 4th ed MM.

[pawsplay]

I thought people were complaining about not being able to use their old books.

Ha! Good one. Well, I think this is more a case of the diminished value of 4e books versus the 3e books actually gaining value. Particularly as Wikipedia is a free resource for dino lore anyway.

 

[DonaldRumsfeldsTofu]

I think having dinosaurs in D&D is silly. (Isn't that what dragons are for?)

I think having dinosaurs in D&D, and giving them names like "treehorn" and "bladetooth" is silly. (This isn't Land Before Time)

I think having dinosaurs in D&D and calling them behemoths is silly. (Unless we're talking about Jack Chick's homebrew world, then it's alright)

 

[Ripzerai]

I don't think Lolth would punish failing drow by doing what Corellon did to her. If anything, she would wear her spider form as a badge of defiance and spite, and would reward her favored ones with a similar form.

She would expect them to feel similar defiance and spite toward her, and to thrive anyway. But Lolth is a twisted, evil being, and part of that package is an unhealthy amount of self-loathing. It's impossible for her to separate her own psychological baggage from the form she's given, and that carries over when she grants that form to others.

She expects her creations to love and loathe her, just as she continues to love and loathe Corellon Larethian. Even if she considers the drider shape to be a "reward" of sorts, part of her knows perfectly well it's also a punishment. It is to her as it's always been: a gift from a scorned lover, a reflection of her twisted inner nature turned into an outer scar. It's both a badge of honor and an indelible stain. It's not, and can never be, simple for her, and so the position of driders within drow society cannot be simple either. This is why they cannot be tolerated by mainstream drow culture; it isn't wise for such a one, touched by the goddess's own hand and the subject of both her love and self-hatred, to be permitted too near those who'd rather avoid the attention of the Spider Queen.

 

[Uzzy]

Entirely correct Rip, and a very good analysis of Lolth. I've certainly learnt a fair bit about her contradictions.

Of course, all this makes for Lolth and the Drow to be a highly interesting and nuanced culture, something more then just monsters who live in the dark. Sadly, 4th Edition doesn't want that nuance. They just want the monsters. Which is sad.

 

[fiddlerjones]

Of course the inhabitants of [Insert Fantasy World Here] probably wouldn't speak English. Of course they wouldn't know common words like "sword" or "dragon" any more than they would "dinosaur." The idea here is that we're using English as a substitute for their Common language. Thus the change of "dinosaur" to "behemoth" favors internal consistency. This is a world where people live in fear of monsters and unknowable evils (at least if one follows the "Points of Light" paradigm). Latinate terms for creatures automatically evokes science and knowledge and taxonomy. The inhabitants of this world know very little of what lurks beyond their respective villages, and much less do they have a sophisticated system of categorization for them.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Of course the inhabitants of [Insert Fantasy World Here] probably wouldn't speak English. Of course they wouldn't know common words like "sword" or "dragon" any more than they would "dinosaur." The idea here is that we're using English as a substitute for their Common language. Thus the change of "dinosaur" to "behemoth" favors internal consistency. This is a world where people live in fear of monsters and unknowable evils (at least if one follows the "Points of Light" paradigm). Latinate terms for creatures automatically evokes science and knowledge and taxonomy. The inhabitants of this world know very little of what lurks beyond their respective villages, and much less do they have a sophisticated system of categorization for them.

By trhat paradigm, you'd call scorpions..."stingtails" or "Landlobsters" or some such....but we don't! They are still called "scorpions" Same with wolves, bears etc etc.

See, the problem is, the MM is used by 21st century Humans who need the books as a reference.
Thus we do not need RL creatures re-classified under silly, aribtrary names!

As a DM, I can call 'em whatever the hell I want to when roleplaying, that is somehting completely different!

My bet is the name is so WOTC can copyright the minis or whatever.
Just adds complexity where none needs to be :/

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Apropos, I can't fathom the complaints about "word+word naming system". If you don't like compound words, what would you rather use in their stead, hmm? Not something apostrous and meaningless, but "fantasy-sounding", I hope.

 

[MortalPlague]

I'm surprised nobody has touched on this one...

Unicorns - since when are they unaligned? Aren't they the very embodiment of good?

 

[delericho]

Of course the inhabitants of [Insert Fantasy World Here] probably wouldn't speak English. Of course they wouldn't know common words like "sword" or "dragon" any more than they would "dinosaur." The idea here is that we're using English as a substitute for their Common language. Thus the change of "dinosaur" to "behemoth" favors internal consistency.

Why is Tyrannosauros Rex ("Tyrant Lizard King") unacceptable but Minotaur acceptable? Not only does the latter refer to tauros/bull in the same way the former refers to sauros/lizard, but it also refers to Minos, the king of Crete - a reference that makes absolutely no sense outside of our own world!

Surely, Minotaur should be "BullHead Brute", or similar silliness?

 

[delericho]

Apropos, I can't fathom the complaints about "word+word naming system". If you don't like compound words, what would you rather use in their stead, hmm?

Word + word is fine, if the names chosen are actually good and flavourful. "Rivendell" is a good example, where "Threehorn Behemoth" is not. Unfortunately, it's not really possible to define the difference beyond "we know it when we see it".