Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie

[Staffan]

Elves no longer have infravision ... that's a major weakening of the race (it's DARK in a forest at night! Been there.)

They get low-light vision instead, being able to see very well with natural light sources (e.g. moonlight) and twice as far with artificial ones (e.g. torches).

Now any race can become any class or multiclass. But Favored Classes are important, and would seem to represent a holdover from the classic conceptions of the races from older editions. I mean, dwarves were always good fighters, elves loved magic, halflings were natural rogues, and so on.

To some degree, the favored class mostly means "favored dabbling". Lots of dwarves learn how to fight, even if their main trade is that of a rogue. Most elves learn a spell or three, taking a couple of levels of wizard. Almost all halflings are sneaky.

Do the dexterity bonuses cancel out any of the - 6 / - 10 penalties?

No. However, the Two-Weapon fighting feat does (by +2/+6 in 3.5, and +2/+2 in 3.0), and that requires you to have Dex 15+. There are also later feats you can take that give you more off-hand attacks (at cumulative -5 penalties, just like main attacks), requiring even higher Dex. So dual-wielding is still the province of high-Dex characters, but in a different way.

Ambidexterity? There go the drow again

Drow are no longer naturally ambidextrous.

Based on what I'm reading, it seems to me that Light Armor is all but useless (it was most certainly all but useless in 2nd edition and 1st edition! Leather armor was absolutely useless.)

Light armor is far from useless. They go up to chain shirt, which gives +4 to AC (equivalent of scale mail). +4 seems to be the accepted minimum armor bonus in various parts of the system - most wizards will be having the same on account of the mage armor spell (3e equivalent of the 2e armor spell).

What do they mean by su and sp (after words like countersong, fascinate, etc.) ?
Are they referring to supernatural and spell-like ability?

Exactly. Spell-like abilities are a bit more restrictive - for example, if you try to use them in melee, your opponent gets a free attack at you (though that's relatively easy to avoid).

I know that like bonuses do not stack in 3rd edition. Different kinds of bonuses do stack. There seems to be a lot of different kinds of bonuses. So far, I've heard of, for Armor Class alone:

There's a more comprehensive list of bonus types and what they can apply to in the DMG.

Enhancement bonus (I do not entire understand what enhancement means)

Enhancement bonuses are the bonuses given by most magic equipment (e.g. a +3 chain shirt has a +3 enhancement bonus). These are usually applied indirectly - so the +3 chain shirt doesn't give a +3 enhancement bonus to AC, it instead has a +3 applied to its basic +4 armor bonus, for a total armor bonus of +7. That's why enhancement bonuses from armor and shields stack.

Deflection bonus (I do not entirely understand that one either, despite the obvious meaning of the word deflection.)

Basically some sort of supernatural warding-off of attacks. This is the bonus granted by most magical sources, notably protection from evil and rings of protection.

Powerful creatures like drow and illithid make it a point to learn Common. That's a mistake, since it makes them subject to this attack.

It also makes them able to use suggestion on others, so it comes out allright in the end.

Inspire Greatness: There's that Competence Bonus again: + 2 to Attack Rolls, + 1 to Fortitude Saves, gain 2d10 hit dice (does this mean the character is 2 levels higher for all purposes?

Essentially, Inspire Greatness adds two fighter levels to the character (well, not exactly, but it's close enough). It's the same sort of effect as a 2e potion of heroism.

Also, this is a good place to point out the differences between "temporary" hit points (like those gained through this ability, or the aid spell, or a number of other sources and "extra" hp gained through a Con increase. You can easily go ahead and squander your temporary hp without worrying - they're sort of like an ablative shield. Extra Con-based hp though, go away when Con drops again. So yeah - the barbarian rages and gets 2 hp/level (more at higher levels when he gets Greater and Mighty rage), but when the rage runs out he loses 2 hp per level again. You'd better hope the cleric has had a chance to get to him before that.

For example, if one bard is using Inspire Courage, another Inspire Greatness, and yet another Inspire Heroics on my character, wouldn't he get:
+ 2 Morale Bonus for saves against fear and charm (8th level bard)
+ 2 Morale Bonus on Attack Rolls and Damage Rolls (8th level bard)
2 extra levels (additional abilities?)
2d10 hit points plus constitution bonus for 2 levels.
+ 2 Competence Bonus on Attack Rolls. + 1 Competence Bonus on Fortitude Saves.
+ 4 Morale Bonus on all Saving Throws.
+ 4 Dodge Bonus to Armor Class.

The two bolded ones wouldn't stack, since they're both Morale bonuses. The others, sure.

 

[WayneLigon]

A wizard only needs AN HOUR to prepare ALL of her spells? LOLOL.

And if he has his books he can change out his spell selection for the day at any time, 15 minutes per spell. He can also use a higher level spell slot to prepare a lower level spell. A mage with 6/5/4/2 spells could memorize 11 Magic Missles if he was so inclined.

I've heard stories of nerfing of magic in 3.5, but if the wizard need spend only an hour, that's a MASSIVE empowering of the class. (Yes, that's right, folks. There was once a time when the hapless 5th level mage, with spells 4/2/1, had to spend 2 hours and 45 minutes to memorize her paltry spell selection.

I've played D&D since the three brown books, and I have never had anyeone actually use that rule Same with weapon speed factors. Similarly, no-one I knew ever seriously though that 'infravision' worked like an infrared scope - they just said 'you can see in the dark' and left it like that. I think what you'll find is that, even more than 2E, 3E took what a lot of people were doing anyway and made it a normal rule.

 

[Voadam]

Cheers to all of you. And thanks for the feedback so far!

A wizard only needs AN HOUR to prepare ALL of her spells? LOLOL.
It DID take 7 days (or more) for a 20th level wizard to rememorize her spells. (A single 9th level spell alone took 2 hours and 15 minutes to memorize.)
I've heard stories of nerfing of magic in 3.5, but if the wizard need spend only an hour, that's a MASSIVE empowering of the class.

Still needs 8 hours of rest (or quiet contemplation for elves) before hand.

The 3e/3.5 nerfing is in the power of the spells compared to how they were before. 10d6 max damage for fireballs when every monster now gets con bonuses like a PC. Hold person gets a save every round to break it. It is really tough to get a high target for the saves, lots of monsters are immune to mind affecting spells, evocations mostly do less damage than a comparable level warrior, many monsters have spell resistance that makes most spells fail entirely, rogues and monks take no damage on successful saves against area spells, etc.

 

[kenobi65]

I see that a bard can only 'know' so many spells per spell level. The penalty once applied to all wizards is still applied to him.

If a bard can cast spells without preparation, that is a major strengthening of the class. In the old rules, all the spellcasting professions had to spend 15 minutes per level of the spell to memorize it.
Thus, a bard would have had to have spent 45 minutes memorizing one 3rd level spell. It was a crushing problem (since nobody has that kind of time in the middle of an adventure to spend) and many DMs just let memorization be a brief thing.

As others have pointed out, there's now two essentially two "flavors" of spellcasting: spell preparation and spontaneous casting. Bards and Sorcerers are the only core classes that cast spells spontaneously. (And, in both "flavors", the amount of time the caster spends getting ready for the day has been made into something reasonable...)

Bards and sorcerers essentially trade one sort of flexibility for another: they never find themselves stuck with a useless prepared spell (because they can use their spell slots on any spell they know), but, they know very few spells at any particular level, and learning more spells is difficult (beyond gaining new spells for leveling, about the only other way to do it is to spend a feat slot).

 

[Thotas]

Don't be so sure it's hard to get a good save built up. Example character I play:

Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 1 : Will Save

+3 for Cleric levels
+3 for Wizard levels
+2 for MT level
+4 for Wisdom (19) bonus; goes to +5 for a 20 next level
+2 Iron Will Feat
+2 vs. enchantment spells and effects (which many Will saves are) for being a half-elf

That's a +16 on Will saves for a 7th level character, which aint half bad!

 

[IcyCool]

I'll see what I can do to help you understand some of the changes (with a couple of specifics aimed at the questions you were asking).

#1. You will probably find yourself referring to darkvision as infravision. Take a quick look at what darkvision is. There is no infravision anymore. It doesn't exist. This is actually a reasonably big change.

#2. Attribute scores are more of a linear progression now, instead of the huge jump between 18 and 19.

#3. Everyone uses the same experience chart.
#3a. Everyone generally gets an equal share of the experience. The fighter gets his share of the experience for the trap that the rogue disarms and the rogue gains his share of experience for the goblin the fighter killed. In other words, the party earns experience as a group. There's no point for in the fighter getting mad because the wizard finished off the monster he was hacking at, because he gets his share of experience regardless.

#4. Hitpoints. Monsters have a lot more of them now. Gone are the days of the mid-level fighter having more hitpoints than the dragon he is facing.

#5. Everyone can multiclass.

#6. Kenobi65 went over it already, but it does bear repeating. There are spontaneous spellcasters (sorcerer, bard), and casters that have to prepare spells (cleric, druid, wizard). Spontaneous spellcasters have a very limited number of spells that they know, but can pick what they want to cast whenever they cast a spell. Casters who prepare spells generally have many more spells known, but have to prepare them in advance.

#7. Wizards learn two new spells every wizard level that they gain. And they start with some spells in their spellbook. If they want more, they have to find or buy them.

#8. Two-weapon fighting is pretty much the domain of high dexterity characters. The two-weapon fighting feat chain requires a high dexterity. You get smaller penalties if you are fighting with a light weapon in your off hand, and you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to add your Dex modifier to attacks with light weapons instead of your strength. If you play a ranger and choose the two-weapon style, you can only do it in light or no armor, so dex is very important to your ac.

#9. There is no facing. None. Also, there is no backstab. The rogue now has sneak attack. He gets to use it when the opponent is flat-footed, denied his dex, or flanked.

#10. There are several different bonus types. There are also un-named bonuses. As a general rule, bonuses of the same type don't stack (Dodge bonuses do stack). Un-named bonuses stack with everything. In the case where you are granted two bonuses of the same type, you gain the benefit of the higher bonus type.

Hopefully that will make some sense to you.

As to the Bard and where his casting ability comes from, that's just flavor. Maybe it comes from his soul, maybe it comes from the love for his dead family, maybe it comes from the magical kool-aid he drank, whatever.

A wizard only needs AN HOUR to prepare ALL of her spells? LOLOL.
It DID take 7 days (or more) for a 20th level wizard to rememorize her spells. (A single 9th level spell alone took 2 hours and 15 minutes to memorize.)
I've heard stories of nerfing of magic in 3.5, but if the wizard need spend only an hour, that's a MASSIVE empowering of the class.

Well, if you've got the "Steading of the Hill Giants" adventure, take a look at the amount of hitpoints that a typical hill giant had. Now crack open the 3.x monster manual and look at how many it has. And realize that the wizard's fireball does the same amount of damage as it used to. Before, you'd cast fireball and the giants would die. Now you cast fireball and the giants get angry.

 

[kenobi65]

I see the bard does not have any clerical spells or clerical abilities. So he is not quite a Jack-of-all-Trades ... (it takes a cleric, to be a cleric, I always say )

The Bard *does* get cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, etc.

In a lot of ways, the Bard makes the ideal "fifth Beatle" -- after you have the other bases covered (a figthing-type, a divine spellcaster, a full arcane spellcaster, a skills specialist), a bard can be a great party member. With the exception of social skills, he's unlikely to be the party's best at many things, but his versatility, and ability to support the rest of the party with his bardic abilities and spells, make him a great utility-man.

Of course, the class also does best with a player who is (a) comfortable in that role, and (b) knows how to best use the abilities...but that's pretty much true of any class.

 

[kenobi65]

In my experience this is not at all the case. Maximum dexterity bonuses to AC made light armor the most commonly used variety in my games. At higher levels mithral plate might be more popular, but all the archers and even some meleers will rather have light armor to get the maximum possible dex bonus to AC. (Hmm.. and mithral plate is light armor, actually, is it not?).

No, it's not, unfortunately; mithral plate is medium armor.

As you'll see when you get to the Equipment chapter, Edena, there are three categories of armor:

Light: Padded (+1 bonus to AC), leather (+2), studded leather (+3), chain shirt (+4)
Medium: Hide (+3), scale (+4), chainmail (+4), breastplate (+5)
Heavy: Splint (+6), banded (+6), half-plate (+7), full plate (+8)

As Numion referred to, generally speaking, the heavier the armor, the less of your Dex bonus can be applied to AC -- for example, if you're wearing Leather, you can apply up to +8 of your Dex bonus (assuming it's that high) to your AC. But, if you're wearing Full Plate, you can only apply +1 of your Dex bonus to your AC. Thus, if you have an 18 Dex (+4 bonus), Half-Plate armor (+7 armor bonus to AC, +0 max Dex bonus to AC) would actually give you less protection than a Chain Shirt (+4 armor bonus to AC, +4 max Dex bonus to AC).

So, generally speaking, you tend to see PCs and their armor choices split into two camps:
- High-dex PCs tend to wear Light armor, so they can also apply most, if not all, of their Dex bonus to AC (and, several Dex-dependent classes, such as Rogue, Barbarian, and Ranger, have game mechanics that also push them into wearing nothing heavier than Light armor)
- Low-dex PCs tend to wear the heaviest armor they can get. This is the stereotypical tank-cleric.

As far as mithral...if a suit of metal (or primarily metal) armor is made of mithral, it has several nice effects:
- The armor is treated as one "weight" category lighter (so, a suit of mithral Breastplate would be considered Light armor)
- Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by 10%
- Maximum Dex bonus to AC is increased by 2
- Armor Check Penalty is reduced by 3

So, your Bard (who can wear Light armor without penalty) could invest 4200gp in a suit of mithral breastplate. At that point, he'd have:
- Light armor (so, nothing fouling up his abilities or spells)
- +5 armor bonus to AC
- Maximum Dex bonus to AC of +5
- Armor Check Penalty of -1

Pretty much the only downside would be that his speed would be lower (since making the armor out of mithral doesn't increase your speed while wearing it).

And, once you get into magical enhancements, it's cheaper to increase your AC via making your armor magical than it is via other magical enhancements (i.e., Rings of Protection, Amulets of Natural Armor, etc.)

 

[wingsandsword]

A mithril breastplate however, is light armor. The most powerful light armor in the core rules.

In my experience, a mithril breastplate is pretty much standard gear for a mid level (or higher) Bard or Ranger (or other class that loses abilities in heavier armor), Studded Leather is typical rogue gear because masterwork Studded Leather is the heaviest armor with no Armor Check Penalty to all those skills. A mithril light shield is typical for bards (or wizards & sorcerers that have multiclassed with a class that gives shield proficiency), since it also has 0% arcane spell failure.

 

[MerricB]

And if he has his books he can change out his spell selection for the day at any time, 15 minutes per spell.

That's not quite correct: A wizard (or possibly cleric) can choose not to prepare all their spell slots. They can, later in the day, choose to prepare the rest of their spells. The time it takes is in proportion to how much they're preparing of their daily allotment, with a minimum of 15 minutes.

So, a Wizard may leave two 2nd level slots open, then in the middle of the adventure prepare two Knock spells - this will take a minimum of 15 minutes.

Cheers!