Complete Arcane - What's in it!!

[Psion]

So what you are saying, is that it's okay to have a feat that gives you a bare minimum of almost 68,000gp (the cost to buy scrolls of the highest possible level for the extra spells known, not taking into account any costs to scribe said spells into your spellbook, which would rocket the costs up if Boccob's Blessed Book didn't exist) and saves you weeks of scribing time is balanced?

What's the value of a spellbook compared to the value of a scroll? Because scrolls do more than give you a spell to put into your book; they give you a means to cast spells beyond your current slots (in numbers and levels.) Your assessment of the cost is off.

Further, the value of spellbooks is not factored into treasure values, since all NPC wizards will have the normal equipment alotment PLUS a spellbook.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Actually, I think you're underestimating the value of Delay Spell. That's a potent ability. It's good for stealth, for sneak attacks, for leverage in negotiation, for combat tactics, for hitting a creature hard all at once... Frankly, I don't think it's overpriced at all.

More to the point, it follows the precedent of fireball and delayed blast fireball.

Actually, I think about the only thing Delay spell is good for is the scry-buff-teleport routine.

You layer a bunch of offensive spells to go off the round you teleport in and then have a delayed teleport ready to take you out. Total time in area: 1 round. Total number of offensive spells used: (4 delayed spells from previous rounds, 1 contingent, 1 normal, 1 quickened plus several more from your familiar (via imbue with spell ability)).

But that's about all it's good for.

 

[Trainz]

I have heard that there is a feat in a dragon magazine (that might have been a feat preview of CA) that lowers the cost of a single metamagic feat by one level... can anyone enlighten me on that, because I have the CA and there is no such feat in it.

Ktnx.

 

[Gez]

Actually, I think about the only thing Delay spell is good for is the scry-buff-teleport routine.

You layer a bunch of offensive spells to go off the round you teleport in and then have a delayed teleport ready to take you out. Total time in area: 1 round. Total number of offensive spells used: (4 delayed spells from previous rounds, 1 contingent, 1 normal, 1 quickened plus several more from your familiar (via imbue with spell ability)).

I don't have ComArc, and a sleeping cat on my lap prevents me from reaching Tome & Blood, but aren't all parameters of a delayed spell set at the time you cast it, not at the time it goes off? Meaning the delayed teleport would work (since you can give the parameters before you attack, you can even set a teleport spell to teleports you just right where you are), as would a delayed offensive spell that would go off after you leave the battlefield; but that's all.

If you're in your sanctum, and you cast delayed fireballs, and teleports out, the spell effects won't travel with you. You'll just manage to lay waste to your own lab. Congratulations!

 

[Dalamar]

What's the value of a spellbook compared to the value of a scroll? Because scrolls do more than give you a spell to put into your book; they give you a means to cast spells beyond your current slots (in numbers and levels.) Your assessment of the cost is off.

It isn't, technically, since you would have to buy that scroll to scribe it into your spellbook, or find some other way of learning the spell, which usually entails some kind of a cost. But since they're only scribable, we could say they're half as valuable. Which still leaves over 33,000gp. That's close to the price of a +6 stat enhancer, and a bit over the price of a +3 weapon. And it still isn't taking into account any costs for scribing spells into your spellbook (100gp per spell level, which would be 4,100gp if you took all the bonus spells as 1st level spells and didn't have a Boccob's Blessed Book). If you're like that guy who mostly plays wizards in our group and intend to know all the spells from the PHB plus assorted spells from other source books, you're saving a big darn pile of gold with this feat.
Besides, nothing says that a Wizard can't choose learn the same spell multiple times if they wanted to for some wierd reason. Tadah! Instant free duplicate spellbook that you can give to somebody for safe keeping while you're off adventuring with your original spellbook. Or if you normally keep an 'adventuring spellbook', you now have two copies of your spellbook to be stored in two different safe places, for the cost of a feat. And if you're an item crafter, you're just going to love being able to pick those 'only need the spell for this one item' spells for free instead paying gp for it.

People also always raise the point that there isn't unlimited time for item crafting when the balance between sorcerers and wizards is debated. Well, this feat just bought you 41 days for item crafting, with a wider array of possible items to boot.

Still, the feat isn't too much out of the whack in general feat balance since it must be taken at 1st level, when most characters can only take one feat (when the feat, by the way, technically doubles the wizard's wealth). But it is still a powerfull feat.

The sorceror risks nothing with his choices: the mage could loose everything.

So if I made a feat that gave sorcerers a spell book with the normal wizard progression, but they still needed to memorize spells each day the same amount they would normally know, it would be balanced since they could lose everything too?
How often in a standard campaign does a wizard loose their spellbook? I bet about as often as the paladin's Holy Avenger gets sundered. That is, very rarely.

 

[Felon]

So what you are saying, is that it's okay to have a feat that gives you a bare minimum of almost 68,000gp (the cost to buy scrolls of the highest possible level for the extra spells known, not taking into account any costs to scribe said spells into your spellbook, which would rocket the costs up if Boccob's Blessed Book didn't exist) and saves you weeks of scribing time is balanced?

I don't know where you're getting that projection from, but if you're doing what Li did and basing it on what a wizard has to spend over the course of 20 levels, then 68k is chicken feed. That'd be pocket change for the 20th-level wiz even if he DID have to spend it all at once.

Of course, the reality that should sink in once people stop to think here is this money generally isn't spent because a PC wizard harvests the better spells from the spellbooks of NPC wizards the party kills.

But if there isn't a feat that lets sorcerers increase either their spells per day (since spells/day is the sorc's job, while spells known is the wiz's job) significantly, the wizards will have a much more powerful feat to choose.

If spells/day were really a sorc's job, that would be a sorry job indeed, since as has been pointed out with the warlock rationale, that becomes progressively less and less of a factor. A sorc's job is flexibility on the spur of the moment through spontaneous casting, whereas a wizard's is flexibility when preparing ahead of time, thanks to his vast repetoire.

 

[BryonD]

When wizards find spellbooks, do they add numerous spells to their own spellbook?

If the answer is yes, then wizards in your game already have access to a wide variety of spells and the benefit of this feat is marginalized.

If the answer is no then wizards in your game find that the value of extra spells isn't worth the cost. In which case the value of this feat is obviously marginalized.

Either way, the feat is decent, but not by any means overpowered.

 

[Saeviomagy]

At most, for your 9th level spells, that's going to save
2*9*50gp = 900gp

Then for scribing:
2*9*100gp = 900gp

For a grand total of 1800gp.

Oooo. How terrible. A 17th level character saves themselves 1800gp.

Any wizard who's interested in lots of spells known picks up a blessed book anyway.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It isn't, technically, since you would have to buy that scroll to scribe it into your spellbook, or find some other way of learning the spell, which usually entails some kind of a cost. But since they're only scribable, we could say they're half as valuable. Which still leaves over 33,000gp. That's close to the price of a +6 stat enhancer, and a bit over the price of a +3 weapon.

Well, if you want to do it the stupid way, yes.

Alternately you could just pay the PHB recommended 50gp per spell level to copy from someone else.

That means that over the course of 20 levels, including scribing costs (which only idiots pay), you end up saving
32,400 gp.

If you've got a brain, and picked up a blessed book, then you've saved a measly 10,800gp.

As for time? I'm pretty sure that you end up with a pathetic 40 days extra. Over 20 levels. I mean sure, if you're DM's a total jerk about time, then that might actually matter. Mind you, you're probably better off forgetting about being an effective wizard in that scenario.

And, of course, if you really wanted, you could always just get your ranks in spellcraft and not BOTHER copying spells from acquired spellbooks - and just use them as is.

The feat is nice, but it's by no means the powerhouse you think it is.

 

[Nightfall]

Utterly random thought...

I like PG: Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers.

And Anteas' Whip of Devastation will flay away any other 7th level spell!

Anyway back to your regular posting.