Complete Scoundrel gives alignments for Batman, James Bond, Riddick, and more...

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Forget the alignments, I'm not sure most of these guys are scoundrels at all.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Truest statement in this thread. If the moral structures and behavioral tendencies of interesting, complicated characters can not be satisfyingly expressed through the system, it's probably a bad system to use as any kind of roleplaying guide.

:\

The fact that we're discussing this shows that it *can* be expressed through the system. "Satisfying" is only a matter of the DM and players coming to some agreement on what it means for their game.

Relativism and alignment are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Klaus]

Batman doesn't seek vengeance. Vengenace is what young Bruce Wayne was after when he walked up to Joe Chill with a hidden gun in Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne became Batman to keep others from suffering the loss he did.

In the Mayfair DC Heroes game, Batman's motivation is Seeking Justice.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Forget the alignments, I'm not sure most of these guys are scoundrels at all.

QFT

 

[Kaodi]

You can't really say that Starbuck risking her life to save others makes her good and not neutral. As the best pilot there is, it would be stupid not to risk her life, because she is saving her own neck at the same time. Otherwise, the Cylons would of won long ago. You shouldn't confuse good intentions with survival instinct. Besides, there is also the rush of frakkin' those robots. In my opinion Kara is firmly Chaotic Neutral.

 

[Felon]

Forget the alignments, I'm not sure most of these guys are scoundrels at all.

Naturally, Complete Scoundrel provides its working definition of ""scoundrel", which is sufficiently broad in scope to encompass most of these characters. Some, like Lucy Westerna, I'm not familiar with so I'm not sure why they were even considered.

 

[El Ravager]

Punisher - Lawful Good (In DnD).

Possibly a Paladin with a few tweaks. Mostly for the relentless fight against evil. I am also working under the PHB assumption that Lawful does not necessarly = follows laws of the government.



Just replace all the criminals with Orks, Gnolls, Bandits, and any of the other evil things Adventurers kill in droves.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Naturally, Complete Scoundrel provides its working definition of ""scoundrel", which is sufficiently broad in scope to encompass most of these characters. Some, like Lucy Westerna, I'm not familiar with so I'm not sure why they were even considered.

I can reframe a word so as to define it so broadly as to be meaningless, but I'm not sure anyone's better off by me doing so.

Quite a few of those characters don't rely on trickery or their wits or operate outside societal norms or anything else that might be commonly associated with the word "scoundrel."

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

Starbuck

She repeatedly and consistently puts her life in direct danger for the protection of the remnants of the human race. That's pretty Good right there. And I'm hard pressed to think of more than a couple of Evil actions. (That said, the third season has just started over here; her alignment may shift.)

Oh yeah, they take Kara Thrace's Starbuck to some pretty dark places. She went from being my 3rd favorite character to my wishing they would just write her off the show. Looking at her overall character arc thus far, I'm thinking I would classify Kara Thrace as neutral. She is often chaotic, but is still a member of the law-driven military and very often a leader (CAG) charged with upholding laws. She certianly has some good in her, but plenty of bad too. I would estimate that all this washes out to a neutral aligment all around. This is a different variety of neutral than your druid/monk "universe is in balance" type, but neutral nonetheless.

Also, I think early Han Solo puts on a show of being a selfish badass, but has some good tendencies that he works to hide. These soon get revealed when he tells Luke "May the Force Be With You" in the Yavin IV hanger deck. After Chewie admonishes him for leaving, he defensively says "What? I know what I'm doing." Of course he does since he later he comes back and saves the day. His character truly undergoes a character arc from Star Wars to Jedi, going from CG from the beginning to LG by the end. An arc that admittedly is diminished if Greedo shoots first, but that is a conversation for a different day.

 

[arscott]

So a Paladin in Baator would be beholden to its laws? Captain America (assuming you agree he's Lawful Good) in Nazi Germany would be beholden to its laws?

Captain America is an invading soldier. He's not beholden to Germany's laws, but he is beholden to laws, regulations, and orders of the US military. Likewise the paladin in hell will be beholden to the laws of his god and church.

That said, I think lawful characters in evil lands are still beholden to the laws, to a certain extent. Of course, a paladin won't stand idly by while the king butchers peasants on trumped-up charges. But he'll still follow the speed limit, whether it was set by Pelor or by Vecna.