CONAN Is Finally Here!

After appearing three years running in the 10 Most Anticipated RPGs of the Year list, it seems that Conan's streak has come to and end - because Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of has been released! You can get it right now from Modiphius' web store, and will be able to get it elsewhere from tomorrow. PDF only, for the moment. You can also grab a book of six adventures, Jewelled Thrones of the Earth. Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed of is based on Modiphius' own 2d20 system (which also powers their upcoming Star Trek Adventures game). The book is now available for review in the reviews area.

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[Water Bob]

Have you not read the DMG for D&D 5E? Because condemnation of meta-gaming is right in there. Traditional RPGs have been warning against the ignoble practice of meta-gaming for decades, with varied degrees of eloquence.

+1.

 

[Water Bob]

You're stating a preference, being asked to analyze it and explain it, and just repeating the preference without explanation. You've given ZERO insight into why you hate it, while championing, even to the point of attempting to put the whole mechanics up on the BBS, a game which makes extensive use of metagame points... WEG d6.

There are no meta-game mechanics in WEG's D6 Star Wars. There's nothing in that game that influences players to make decisions outside of the game universe--not like the DOOM pool at all.

I'll agree that my responses above were more about my preference.

I just don't like the 2d20 mechanics. At all. So, when it comes up, I state my preference. My preference is negative, so when people who have read my preference on this game before don't want to hear it again. It's as if people are expected to state their negative opinions one time only, on one thread only, ever.

I don't like the game. I'd like them to change it. They probably won't, but I'd like Modoiphius to go with another system. So, when people are talking about it, I should be allowed to state my opinion on it.

I haven't dominated or drowned out this thread.

 

[thzero]

Because it is a trope that the source material embraces?

WHAT?! Of course an RPG is collective story telling! True, everyone has their role, but each of them fit within the same story or sequence of events that the game takes place in. In terms of the GM dice pools, whats the difference between those and the times a GM fudges a number to make a fight more challenging or to help a player along who's had cold dice at the table all night? This is just another way of adjudication, that's all.

Huh? There is some truth to the adjudication argument. I try to keep things as level as possible.

However, RPG is a collective story telling session. People keep saying it is, but its a GAME otherwise the name would be Role Playing Story Telling. I think people get way to caught up in you have to tell a story, and make the events fit a story, etc. than realizing that in the process of playing a game, doing hopefully cool stuff, sharing stories, having highlights and lowlights (yes because of randomness that is built into most of the RPGAME systems), that thats where the story comes from! Not trying to force certain storylines just to make it come out the way you want.

To me, maybe Morpheus has gone a bit too far, but I like the idea of mechanical events (which are meta anyways) allowing some interesting twists to the events, and given players alternate avenues of helping shape the in-game happens outside what their character may or may not be doing. I think it may lead to more interesting stories coming out of the game.

Too bad, for a mechanical game, they've butchered it and taking sloppy short-cuts and limited options... especially for how long its been in production, and having started with an already existing system. And then on top, in this day and age, to not OGL (or choose your own) for the rules (not fluff or canon mind you).... yeah.

 

[Morrus]

Game forums aren't the place to state a dissenting opinion about the mechanics of a game?

Hmm.

I didn't use even one of those words, let alone that sentence or position. Those words are all yours.

 

[aramis erak]

There are no meta-game mechanics in WEG's D6 Star Wars. There's nothing in that game that influences players to make decisions outside of the game universe--not like the DOOM pool at all.

So you don't use force points nor Dark Side points? Both are metagame.

 

[Skywalker]

So you don't use force points nor Dark Side points? Both are metagame.

That's not accurate. The Force and the Dark Side are concepts within the setting and the mechanics model those. You could argue the same for Doom (it models a sense of Doom that Conan once referred to) but I think the concept is clearly less embedded in the setting and, given how it operates, is more obviously of a metagame nature. I think the same is true with Inspiration, which though it could be argued as being actual inspiration, how the mechanics operate make it clear that it is designed as a metagame mechanic.

However, I think this all misses the point. There is nothing wrong with metagaming. It is a matter of taste only. Though the D&D5e DMG correctly warns against the players using OOC knowledge, expanding that statement to say any metagame mechanic is bad goes way beyond its intended meaning.

Its also important to note that we are talking about a GM tool here, not a player one. If you take some of the arguments here to their logical conclusion then a GM choosing to run a module based on its prescribed levels being a better challenge for the PCs would also be bad as the GM is referring to mechanics outside of the setting's conceits. The same is true of encounter building rules, which the GM uses to plan out there encounters. I am sure that there are RPGers who truly believe that these kinds of rules are bad too, and are happy to add a Adult Red Dragon to their 1st level PCs wandering monster table, but I would expect the majority of RPGers see that such mechanics add a lot of enjoyment to the game.

To reiterate, the Doom pool is intended to do a couple of things:
1. To provide the GM with a bennie pool equivalent to the PCs. It does this well and helps the GM with NPC resource management.
2. A gauge to help the GM evaluate when to push harder, as well as a visual countdown clock (which is genre appropriate) for the PCs. Again, it doesn't force the GM to play that way, such as in FATE, and there is a robust RPG system that sits alongside it operating as you would expect.

Again, if you hate any metagame mechanic, even action points and encounter building rules, then Conan 2d20 is not for you. There is really not much more to say that just isn't a repeat of your concern ad nauseum. However, I don't think that purist position of these mechanics reflects where today's hobby is as a whole.

 

[thzero]

However, I think this all misses the point. There is nothing wrong with metagaming. It is a matter of taste only. Though the D&D5e DMG correctly warns against the players using OOC knowledge, expanding that statement to say any metagame mechanic is bad goes way beyond its intended meaning.

Yes and yes. And I do believe all the versions of the DMG have said roughly the same thing.

 

[aramis erak]

Yes and yes. And I do believe all the versions of the DMG have said roughly the same thing.

AD&D 1E told the GM to change the rules to prevent player rules knowledge ... and for many, EGG's advice therein is the epitomé of bad advice.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

AD&D 1E told the GM to change the rules to prevent player rules knowledge ... and for many, EGG's advice therein is the epitomé of bad advice.

Again, though, it's only bad when taken out of context. For the time period when EGG was involved with the game, role-playing wasn't really what the game was about. Although the advertisements may have included the idea of how fun it would be to pretend to be a character, and you certainly could do that while playing, the rules of the game were still just a modified war-game rule-set that set up a contest between the players and the DM.

Gygax expected the players to meta-game, and gave advice that was relevant for the context he was working in. That expectation wasn't something that survived the transition between AD&D 1E and AD&D 2E.

 

[Water Bob]

So you don't use force points nor Dark Side points? Both are metagame.

Neither are meta-game. I think Skywalker said something to the same effect above.

Dark Side Points and Force Points are both in-universe mechanics that represents the effect of the Force on the characters. Other players cannot see how many Force points a foe has and determine not to engage that foe if the number is high--as is done with the Doom Pool.

DSPs and Force Points are no different that a +1 attack a character may get in AD&D due to his superior STR rating. It's not meta-game at all.

AD&D 1E told the GM to change the rules to prevent player rules knowledge ... and for many, EGG's advice therein is the epitomé of bad advice.

I believe that Meta-Gaming is bad and poor form and against what I consider pure roleplaying.

Players in an AD&D game should operate on the knowledge that their characters have--not on the knowledge that the player may get outside of the game.

If a player sees a new monster and decides to have his character run from it, it is considered poor form indeed if the player then changes his mind after having a peek at the GM's notes to see that the HD on the creature is low and easily beaten--not at all what the character was thinking through the player's play before the meta-game information entered the situation.

The same goes for the DOOM pool. The number of DOOM points the GM has to use should be hidden from the players so that the players cannot make in-character decisions based on the DOOM Pool's total. But, it's impossible to hide the DOOM pool as the players generate the points via their actions. Any player paying attention will know the DOOM pool count.